SBR from pistol or rifle lower?

[GunsNstuff]

I am planning on paying the tax and filling out the form and putting together an SBR AR15. I have noticed that Lower receivers that are being marketed as for pistol builds cost a little more than the plain old AR15 lower.

It is also my understanding that IF you buy a plain old AR15 stripped lower receiver and build it as a pistol so that it's buffer tube does not accept a stock, but is only for AR pistols, then that is a pistol, and if you have a pistol Lower, then you can buy the Short Barreled Upper and pin it to the pistol lower so you can shoot it while you wait for the feds to return your tax stamp.

My question is: Do you have to buy a pistol lower to build an AR pistol OR can you just buy a stripped lower that is not being marketed as a rifle or a pistol and build a pistol out of it? I just don't understand the price difference unless it's because a new pistol lower is easy to prove that it was originally a pistol and never a rifle.

 

[joekoug]

The stripped lower has to have been transferred as "pistol" or "other" and must have never had a stock attached to it.

Someone else with more brains than I will correct me if that's wrong, but that's the way I understand it.

Joe

 

[GunsNstuff]

The stripped lower has to have been transferred as "pistol" or "other" and must have never had a stock attached to it.

Joe

That would explain the price difference. I have bought stripped lowers before but I don't know what they called them and I don't know how to find out if they were registered as "other"s.

 

[dubsac]

I am planning on paying the tax and filling out the form and putting together an SBR AR15. I have noticed that Lower receivers that are being marketed as for pistol builds cost a little but more than the plain old AR15 lower.

It is also my understanding that IF you buy a plain old AR15 stripped lower receiver and build it as a pistol so that it's buffer tube does not accept a stock, but is only for AR pistols, then that is a pistol, and if you have a pistol Lower, then you can buy the Short Barreled Upper and pin it to the pistol lower so you can shoot it while you wait for the feds to return your tax stamp.

My question is: Do you have to buy a pistol lower to build an AR pistol OR can you just buy a stripped lower that is not being marketed as a rifle or a pistol and build a pistol out of it? I just don't understand the price difference unless it's because a new pistol lower is easy to prove that it was originally a pistol and never a rifle.

You can buy ANY lower you would like, but must have pistol buffer tube on it while in possession of the upper. This is the route I'm taking while waiting on my stamp. It should be noted that you can turn a pistol to a rifle but CANNOT turn a (registered) rifle into a pistol. I choose this way so I could still shoot and make sure it functions 100% before my stamp arrives.

 

[GunsNstuff]

So is the price for a pistol lower higher because it's easier to prove it was originally a pistol OR just because people incorrectly think they need to start with something that the store calls a pistol, the store knows people think this, so they hike the price up for pistol lowers by $20 over plain old AR lowers?

 

[dubsac]

Where do you see pistol lowers priced higher then other lowers??? Or are this lowers just marked as pistols?? I'm curious myself. Is it a dedicated lower perhaps in 9mm you are referring to?

 

[GunsNstuff]

Where do you see pistol lowers priced higher then other lowers??? Or are this lowers just marked as pistols?? I'm curious myself. Is it a dedicated lower perhaps in 9mm you are referring to?

New Frontier Armory has polymer complete lowers for rifles for $109.00 and the same thing but with a pistol tube and no stock for $139.99. I can't find the magazine at the moment but Centerfire systems was also selling "stripped lowers for pistols" for more money than their "stripped lowers". I am not sure if they were the same brand though.

 

[GunsNstuff]

I just checked to be sure and Centerfire Systems has Double Star stripped lowers for $79.99 and Double Star stripped lowers "for pistols" for $119.99. As far as I can tell they're the exact same part made by the exact same company & being sold by the exact same retailer in the same magazine. The only difference is that 1 is advertised as being for pistols and the other does not say what it's for.

 

[poisonspyder]

I ordered a lower from spikes for my sbr build. When I had it transferred over to me the shop just listed it as a pistol transfer on the paperwork. No need for a pistol lower to be ordered just make sure it comes in without a stock and tube or a pistol buffer tube only.

 

[firewalker]

I just picked up a lower marked "muti cal" thats what I plan on using

 

[poisonspyder]

Unless it was registered as a pistol lower when bought you can not put on a upper shorter than 16 inches until your stamp comes in fyi

 

[GunsNstuff]

Unless it was registered as a pistol lower when bought you can not put on a upper shorter than 16 inches until your stamp comes in fyi

So if it was not listed as a pistol on the paperwork at the gun store then it is a rifle by default? My receipt says ""make/model/cal Spikes ST15 multicaliber lower receiver only" I am not sure what it was registered as. I wonder if Bradis can look it up and tell me?

 

[poisonspyder]

They should know but I believe everyone lists them as rifle unless specified as far as I know.

 

[lucky4034]

Any stripped lower you buy can be made into a pistol AR without a tax stamp as so long as it has NEVER previously had a rifle stock on it. You CAN NOT legally put a stock on it until you get your tax stamp back, but the upper you use is insignificant in the equation (in terms of pistols).

An AR Pistol can become a Rifle at any time (with a stock and a barrel of great than 16")... but an AR Rifle may never become an AR pistol (because it would technically be a SBR)

Once a rifle... always a rifle.


As far as choosing a stripped lower? It doesn't really matter as long as it has never been classified as a rifle and as far as I know... all stripped lowers are transferred unspecified through the FFL. So... if you go to a website and have it sent to an FFL and pick it up there, then you can do what you want from that point (whether make it a full sized rifle or AR pistol).

What I personally wouldn't recommend is that you purchase a used Lower from a private seller and make it a pistol...

 

[Hop]

A stripped lower will never be transferred as anything other than "other". If it's stripped it's not a pistol, not a rifle. I wouldn't pay extra for a stripped lower that someone is selling at a premium for use in an SBR build.

I've seen "semi complete" with LPK installed & without any kind of buffer tube. Those could still be built either way.

 

[lucky4034]

So if it was not listed as a pistol on the paperwork at the gun store then it is a rifle by default? My receipt says ""make/model/cal Spikes ST15 multicaliber lower receiver only" I am not sure what it was registered as. I wonder if Bradis can look it up and tell me?

It wasn't listed as a rifle by default... you are good as long as you don't put a stock on it until you get your tax stamp back.

 

[GunsNstuff]

Very interesting. I appreciate all of the responses. The stripped that I currently have is still stripped and in the safe, so all I have to do is put a pistol buffer tube on it and make it a pistol. AFTER and ONLY after I do that, I am free to turn it into a rifle by putting a 16"+ barrel on it and a stock. If I want to put a shorter than 16" barrel on it, just put the pistol buffer tube back on it first, then a shorter barrel can go on the lower.

So the retailers that charge more for a "stripped pistol lower" than they charge for a "stripped lower" are just counting on people not knowing this information because they will pay a premium for something they think they need, but really don't need.

I take it that if a guy builds a pistol out of a brand new stripped lower, and is questioned by a LEO at the range as to whether or not the pistol is legal (say the officer for whatever reason wants to believe the lower had a stock on it before it had a pistol tube on it) the owner of the AR pistol is not required to have documented proof that the very first buffer tube to ever be attached to the lower was a pistol tube that would not accept a stock? I'm not sure how anyone could prove, (owner or police) which was put on first anyway.

I'm not trying to be complicated here, just trying to cover my butt. I've never owned anything that was questionable before and this is the first time I have considered owning an NFA item. Am I just worrying about nothing? Has anyone ever been questioned about such a thing at the range, during a traffic stop, or at any time?

 

[lucky4034]

Very interesting. I appreciate all of the responses. The stripped that I currently have is still stripped and in the safe, so all I have to do is put a pistol buffer tube on it and make it a pistol. AFTER and ONLY after I do that, I am free to turn it into a rifle by putting a 16"+ barrel on it and a stock. If I want to put a shorter than 16" barrel on it, just put the pistol buffer tube back on it first, then a shorter barrel can go on the lower.

No... once it is converted from a pistol to a rifle... you may no longer change it back to a pistol (unless you have a $200 tax stamp for an SBR). Once a rifle... always a rifle.

So the retailers that charge more for a "stripped pistol lower" than they charge for a "stripped lower" are just counting on people not knowing this information because they will pay a premium for something they think they need, but really don't need.

pretty much...

I take it that if a guy builds a pistol out of a brand new stripped lower, and is questioned by a LEO at the range as to whether or not the pistol is legal (say the officer for whatever reason wants to believe the lower had a stock on it before it had a pistol tube on it) the owner of the AR pistol is not required to have documented proof that the very first buffer tube to ever be attached to the lower was a pistol tube that would not accept a stock? I'm not sure how anyone could prove, (owner or police) which was put on first anyway. I'm not trying to be complicated here, just trying to cover my butt. I've never owned anything that was questionable before and this is the first time I have considered owning an NFA item. Am I just worrying about nothing? Has anyone ever been questioned about such a thing at the range, during a traffic stop, or at any time?

again... once a rifle always a rifle. There is no switching back... but it would be difficult to prove otherwise. However, I wouldn't take any chances. What I will caution is that 10 years in prison isn't worth the risk of "proof". Just protect yourself by researching exactly what you are looking to do to make sure it is legal. Talk to a Class III dealer to answer all of your questions. (cops aren't always the best source of information)

The last thing you want to do (no matter how unlikely it is to get caught) is to commit a felony by accident (or on purpose) and lose all of your 2nd Amendment rights....

 

[Hop]

^ Not entirely correct. You can go back and forth. ATF rule here:
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

 

[lucky4034]

I may be wrong? The wording to me is written unclear because AR-15 parts are technically all sold as individual items (even though manufacturers may make kits). Again... take your chances if you want, but when the consequences are 10 years in prison over a formality, i'd proceed with much caution.

I can't believe its been 2 days and no Class III dealer has shown up to clarify?