SBR question

[MilitaryArms]

Ok, I've had a couple of people tell me that I can't legally remove the stock from my Glock 17 SBR. I have a Mako Group quick detach stock on my G17 SBR. It can be removed easily without tools.

It's my understanding that I can remove the stock from it legally and replace it any time I like. If I read the FAQ on the ATF website correctly, I can even remove the stock and transport the firearm across state lines as a handgun as long as I do not have the parts with me to convert it back into a SBR.

I have no plans to transport the Glock out of state, that's not the point of my question. I just want to know if I'm wrong in my view that I can legally add and remove my stock at will.

 

[JollyMon]

Im not an expert by any means so if anyone knows better let me know. What I am questioning is that it was my understanding that once a pistol is converted to an rifle, it is always a rifle. So I wouldn't think that removing the stock would make it compliant the barrel will still be less then 16 inches.

 

[OneBadV8]

I just want to know if I'm wrong in my view that I can legally add and remove my stock at will.

It's a registered SBR. I think you're ok adding and removing the stock. But without the stock, its still an SBR and not a pistol.

I think that's what you were asking.

 

[MilitaryArms]

It's a registered SBR. I think you're ok adding and removing the stock. But without the stock, its still an SBR and not a pistol.

I think that's what you were asking.

Yes, that is what I am asking and thank you.

I posted a video and two commenters said that it was a no-no to remove the stock from my SBR. That would be news to me. Once it's an SBR you can do pretty much anything you want to it except convert it to a machine gun. I can add and remove a stock, put a forward pistol grip on it, remove said pistol grip, put a 16" barrel on it, remove the 16" barrel, etc.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Im not an expert by any means so if anyone knows better let me know. What I am questioning is that it was my understanding that once a pistol is converted to an rifle, it is always a rifle. So I wouldn't think that removing the stock would make it compliant the barrel will still be less then 16 inches.

Regardless of the stock being attached or removed, it's still a rifle in the eyes of the government. However, as a SBR the barrel can be of any length and the stock is optional. There is no minimum length requirement on a SBR like there is on a non-NFA rifle. A standard rifle must be 26" in length, a SBR has no limits to its size or configuration.

This is my understanding anyway.

 

[xryan.jacksonx]

I think you have that backwards. If you put a 16+ barrel on an SBR, it is no longer an SBR for interstate transport purposes. If you take the stock off, it will still be an SBR per federal law and may or may not be legal in a state that prohibits SBRs depending on if they follow the federal definition or another definition.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I think you have that backwards. If you put a 16+ barrel on an SBR, it is no longer an SBR for interstate transport purposes. If you take the stock off, it will still be an SBR per federal law and may or may not be legal in a state that prohibits SBRs depending on if they follow the federal definition or another definition.

Ahh, makes sense.

 

[OneBadV8]

I think you have that backwards. If you put a 16+ barrel on an SBR, it is no longer an SBR for interstate transport purposes. If you take the stock off, it will still be an SBR per federal law and may or may not be legal in a state that prohibits SBRs depending on if they follow the federal definition or another definition.

I think we were sort of agreeing to some extent. The question was could he take the stock off and put it on at will. And we were saying even without, it's still not a pistol.

Ahh, makes sense.

Yep, that whole Once a rifle ALWAYS a rifle thing.

 

[rvb]

Yep, that whole Once a rifle ALWAYS a rifle thing.

Did the G17 start life as a pistol which was then registered and the stock added later, or was it manufactured as an SBR? I thought the latest ruling was that if it started life as a pistol you could go back and forth, but if it started life as a rifle it was always a rifle?

I thought the following clarified that....
http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

Held further, [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA ([/FONT][/FONT]e.g.[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman], as a pistol). [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Held further, [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]-rvb[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[MilitaryArms]

Did the G17 start life as a pistol which was then registered and the stock added later, or was it manufactured as an SBR? I thought the latest ruling was that if it started life as a pistol you could go back and forth, but if it started life as a rifle it was always a rifle?

I thought the following clarified that....
http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]-rvb[/FONT]
[/FONT]

It started life as a pistol.

 

[rvb]

It started life as a pistol.

Implies to me you would be ok, but "IANAL" is I think the correct accronym here. You could/should write the ATF for clarification (and share the response!). The ruling didn't really deal w/ titleII rifle to psitol, only title 1 to pistol, so there is some reading between the lines there....

And the whole issue w/ going from pistol-->rifle--> pistol before was the concern over creating an SBR (since NFA laws talk about making a gun "from a rifle" which has a <16" bbl). So as long as you don't remove it from the registry and keep the parts on hand (so the conversion is temporary), I don't think it would matter... seems all they could charge you w/ is making an SBR, but you've done that legally...

-rvb

 

[rvb]

I think you have that backwards. If you put a 16+ barrel on an SBR, it is no longer an SBR for interstate transport purposes. If you take the stock off, it will still be an SBR per federal law and may or may not be legal in a state that prohibits SBRs depending on if they follow the federal definition or another definition.

Yup, I think he ok at the federal level. Most states (all that I am familiar with, but that's not "all") have their own definitions of what makes a rifle, an SBR, an MG, etc... and in most states where they are regulated they are illegal, unless you meet the "exception" of it being registered per the NFA. I was just having this discussion on another forum re: OH's magazine limits.

-IF- the OP was asking for purposes of taking the "pistol" out of state, I agree he should be careful about state/local laws and it MAY still need to be considered an SBR. But from a federal standpoint (or IN standpoint), I see no harm in removing the stock... it's just a registered SBR with a reeeeaaaallllly short stock! Would I be breaking a law by removing the stock off my registered short AR and replacing it w/ a pistol extension?

and not a lawyer.

-rvb

 

[minuteman32]

It is just a shame that the gov't has to confuse the whole issue. It should be either a firearm or not a firearm & do away w/ all the SBS/SBR/pistol/long gun/MG stuff. But, that would be way too simple.

 

[Car Ramrod]

Yes, that is what I am asking and thank you.

I posted a video and two commenters said that it was a no-no to remove the stock from my SBR. That would be news to me. Once it's an SBR you can do pretty much anything you want to it except convert it to a machine gun. I can add and remove a stock, put a forward pistol grip on it, remove said pistol grip, put a 16" barrel on it, remove the 16" barrel, etc.

Don't forget the grenade launcher.