SBR Questions

[1371MARINE]

Let's say I Form 1 one of my lowers and register it with a 10.5 in. barrel in 5.56. What limitations are there on placing different uppers on that lower? ie... different calibers and lengths. I'm asking this from a legal standpoint. Also on a different note... are you required by law to carry the paperwork for your NFA items with you when you are at the range, etc? Thanks in advance

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

A) Yes - carry a COPY of the paperwork with you where ever you go with that weapon when it's in SBR form.

B) you can mix/match uppers and calibers all you want... But I think it'd probably be a good idea to register your lower as "Multi" caliber rather than just 223/556.

C) you can put 16" + uppers on and, while in that configuration, isn't an "SBR" and then you can take it to other states that restrict short barreled freedom.

Also - There's a certain ATF form that you can fill out and submit if you want to take your SBR to friendly states to shoot - you can fill them out and submit them way ahead of time, too. Someone will be along shortly to say what that form is, exactly.

 

[Throwsstones]

You can not register a SBR as a multi caliber anymore. The form will be kicked back to you.

 

[rvb]

Let's say I Form 1 one of my lowers and register it with a 10.5 in. barrel in 5.56. What limitations are there on placing different uppers on that lower? ie... different calibers and lengths. I'm asking this from a legal standpoint. Also on a different note... are you required by law to carry the paperwork for your NFA items with you when you are at the range, etc? Thanks in advance

As long as the change is "temporary" (eg you still have the parts for the registered configuration), you can swap uppers w/o notifying ATF.

I don't think carrying the paperwork (photocopies!) on you is required by law, but is generally considered a good idea. Worst case is you would have to provide paperwork to get charges dropped or as a defense to a crime, such as having a machinegun, but I don't believe you can be charged w/ the crime of "not having your papers."

B) you can mix/match uppers and calibers all you want... But I think it'd probably be a good idea to register your lower as "Multi" caliber rather than just 223/556.

They haven't allowed "multi" for probably a decade now. Just register in the configuration you expect to have it in most, IMO. I have one registered as ".22LR, 9mm, .223 Rem" but I don't think they allow that any more either.

Also - There's a certain ATF form that you can fill out and submit if you want to take your SBR to friendly states to shoot - you can fill them out and submit them way ahead of time, too. Someone will be along shortly to say what that form is, exactly.

5320.20. You can fill it out for 12 months for a particular location. Last one I did took 7 weeks... hopefully getting better by now. For some family's residences, I just do Feb 1 - Jan 31 (so the holidays / new-years are covered each year).

-rvb

 

[lazarus0213]

ummmm, I believe that once its an sbr its always an nfa item and MUST be treated as such. So if you put a 20" upper on it I wopuld make sure to treat it as if it had a 10.5" upper and maintain constant control and have a COPY of paperwork.

 

[bmbutch]

5320.20. You can fill it out for 12 months for a particular location. Last one I did took 7 weeks... hopefully getting better by now. For some family's residences, I just do Feb 1 - Jan 31 (so the holidays / new-years are covered each year).

-rvb

Just did one, mailed 4/21, received back 5/21. Maybe getting better.

offtopic-ish: picking up my gun trust today from lawyer.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Thanks for the update about "multi" registration. I appreciate the knowledge.

 

[rvb]

ummmm, I believe that once its an sbr its always an nfa item and MUST be treated as such. So if you put a 20" upper on it I wopuld make sure to treat it as if it had a 10.5" upper and maintain constant control and have a COPY of paperwork.

according to ATF, it all depends if you "retain control" of the original SBR parts.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/na...ifles-shotguns.html#interstate-transportation

As for putting a longer barrel on it for traveling to states that don't allow SBRs, I think that's ok. This is just IMO, but if you are travelling in state A w/ your "registered" SBR which you have converted into a title1 GCA gun, and your short barrel is home in state B, then you haven't broken state A's SBR laws nor travelled interstate w/ an SBR w/o permission and you are not in "control" of your short barrel during that time. Now if you have the short barrel with you, just not attached to the gun, that would be bad news.

In the case where you stay in your home state, just put a longer barrel on it for some reason, then I don't think you need to have paperwork with you, etc. The paperwork could be left at home w/ the short barrel since only by combining the two do you create an SBR.

It's not like a MG where once the receiver is an MG, it's always a MG. You can put a longer barrel on your SBR and sell it as a title1 GCA gun, for instance. No paperwork required. ATF just requests notification it can come off the registry.

Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations? If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change? Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.

Q: If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms? If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm? Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA “firearm” is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn’t comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.

If I put a 16+" upper on my SBR and left the short upper at home, I would treat the AR just like any other title1/GCA AR. I wouldn't worry about paperwork, I'd sell it face-2-face if someone made a big enough offer, and I'd walk accross state lines w/o a 5320.20......

-rvb

 

[tradertator]

I try my best to have a photo copy of my approved / stamped form any time one of my title III items is out of the house. It would be much less hassle for the owner as well as a LEO in the event it was questioned. Most deal with NFA items rarely if ever, so a completed form can help make sense of what might appear as an illegal item.

Registering your item as "multi caliber" went the way of the dodo bird many years ago. Shame because that's how many lowers are engraved and would make everyone's life a bit simpler.

As far as reconfiguring the items, I think that's a gray area. A while back, my coworker switched from a 11.5 to 10.5" upper. I told him I would contact the ATF and notify them of the changes if it were mine. When he did, he was told it was unnecessary and that a registered lower is a registered lower regardless of how you have it configured. Makes sense to me, but I'd say you could get a different answer from a different agent depending on what day of the week it is or what phase the moon is in I think the interwebz general rule is to stay in possession of the original configurations parts so that it can be put back together as measured on your form, but I honestly don't know the validity of that.

 

[1371MARINE]

Thank you all for the help. It seems in line with answers from others I've talked with. Although based on the variety of answers, opinions, etc... a call to the ATF wouldn't hurt. Thanks again INGO

 

[rbhargan]

Resurrecting this thread because I have the same question that 1371MARINE had. Consensus of opinion is that once a receiver is registered as a SBR, you can swap out uppers and convert to different calibers without having to pay for an additional tax stamp. However, given that you cannot specify "multi-caliber" on Form 1, I am a bit concerned as to what the basis for this opinion is. I have searched the ATF web site and INGO, but have not found anything that points back to ATF and specifically states that this is allowable. Has anyone run across anything from ATF that states that this is legal?

Thanks.

 

[JollyMon]

Resurrecting this thread because I have the same question that 1371MARINE had. Consensus of opinion is that once a receiver is registered as a SBR, you can swap out uppers and convert to different calibers without having to pay for an additional tax stamp. Thanks.

The upper isnt what has been registered as an SBR. You have registered the lower. Whatever lives on top of the SBR lower doesnt matter, whether you change it to a 22lr or a 300 blk or change barrel lengths. However, If you want to keep the SBR in that configuration, the ATF suggests that you notify them (so they can update their database), but I dont think its a requirement. I don't have any of the supporting docs but that was my understanding.

When you fill out the form to create the sbr, the information that you write down is how you are going to manufacture that sbr. 556 with a 10.3 barrel, overall length of blank..... but after manufacturing you can change the specs. per my understanding.

 

[rbhargan]

I think I may have found my answer. I missed it the first time I looked, but the second to the last question on this ATF web page directly addresses the issue of caliber change:
Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns | ATF
As long as it is a "temporary" change, it appears to be OK. What constitutes "temporary" is another matter. :-)

 

[rvb]

[STRIKE]while that specific question isn't answered here, you can infer it from the other answers. [/STRIKE]
[oops, as you found the specific answer. I was just looking at the wording in the questions, not the answers. so there you go]

ATF "requests" written notification of permanent changes to the configuration to keep the registry up to date.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html

Compare to the questions about putting on a longer barrel. barrel length and caliber and over-all length are all descriptions given when you register so it stands to reason if you can change barrel length in a non-permanent way you could also change caliber in a non-permanent way.

 

[rvb]

The upper isnt what has been registered as an SBR. You have registered the lower. Whatever lives on top of the SBR lower doesnt matter, whether you change it to a 22lr or a 300 blk or change barrel lengths. However, If you want to keep the SBR in that configuration, the ATF suggests that you notify them (so they can update their database), but I dont think its a requirement. I don't have any of the supporting docs but that was my understanding.

When you fill out the form to create the sbr, the information that you write down is how you are going to manufacture that sbr. 556 with a 10.3 barrel, overall length of blank..... but after manufacturing you can change the specs. per my understanding.

well, actually, you have registered the entire firearm. the lower has the SN and is where most folks engrave, but you could engrave the barrel, for instance. the lower itself is not an SBR. Take the barrel off, destroy/sell it, and it's no longer an SBR. They 'request' notification to keep the registry up to date.

-rvb

 

[JollyMon]

Is there a specific form that one sends in if they choose to inform the ATF of a permanent change? Or just a common letter or phone call.

Edit...Nevermind. No Form, Just sending a letter stating the changes.