SC Trooper Shoots man for alleged seatbelt violation

[terrehautian]

When I watched the original video, hindsight is 20/20. Yeah, we know now that the guy was only getting his license and was unarmed. The cop didn't and the guy in the car didn't say he was just going to get his license. Now, the cop did shoot when the guys hands was up, so it is somewhat excessive. Then I watch a video like in the link before and the cop didn't even expect anything to happen and look what did. Cops are human and make mistakes, luckily this time it wasn't a fatal mistake (on either end).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMxRTWwcWrs

 

[phylodog]

Good enough to take on cigarette peddlers in NYC?

In my sleep. I flew to Vegas to be trained by this officer
[video=youtube;7PIzc6qDnh8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PIzc6qDnh8[/video]

 

[Rookie]

Ah, that brings back painful memories. I commend you for your dedication.

 

[2001FZ1]

Well at least the cop was a horrible shot.I heard 4 shots fired from maybe what 3-5 yards and only one round hits the driver? It makes you wonder what these people are doing with firearms at all, but thats not even touching the fact most people in my immediate family are better shots than 95% of cops including my 14 year old brother. Unbelievable just totally unbelievable. On the bright side I dont see the police ever recovering from this latest string of **** ups. Go cops!!.......

Read up on the stats. He was about average on hitting the target. If cops were proficient shooters, they wouldn't carry large capacity magazine plus a couple extra.

 

[Denny347]

Read up on the stats. He was about average on hitting the target. If cops were proficient shooters, they wouldn't carry large capacity magazine plus a couple extra.

]

What are the statistics for hits on target for IMPD? You seem to know. What is the average round count per gun fight? Your argument is dumb.

 

[phylodog]

He passes better than Peyton Manning and drives better than Dale Earnhardt ever did.

 

[forgop]

]

What are the statistics for hits on target for IMPD? You seem to know. What is the average round count per gun fight? Your argument is dumb.

Are we including fists and boots as well?

 

[Draco]

When I watched the original video, hindsight is 20/20. Yeah, we know now that the guy was only getting his license and was unarmed. The cop didn't and the guy in the car didn't say he was just going to get his license. Now, the cop did shoot when the guys hands was up, so it is somewhat excessive. Then I watch a video like in the link before and the cop didn't even expect anything to happen and look what did. Cops are human and make mistakes, luckily this time it wasn't a fatal mistake (on either end).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMxRTWwcWrs

Alright, here is my problem with such responses to incidents: it puts no impetus on betterment or change. It is to remove all responsibility from all players; it is to say that if all players are human – or at least similar or relatable humans – that no lessons should be drawn. In fact, it is worse than that because it implies that there are no lessons that could be drawn. (

Now look, maybe it comes from being an outlier in most respects, but I try to take a view that for every bad event, for every mistake I make, the only way I can even move to make things right is to take what I can from the event. What lesson is there to learn? Where did I go wrong? How can I better spot this mistake? If I realize midway that I’m repeating it, how can I change the outcome? I suppose it’s akin to a consolation prize; I cannot undo the error, the mistake, or the event that led to whatever, but if I can get any gain from the experience, well, then it isn’t a complete unmitigated disaster. (Funny, though, as jotting it down makes me sound optimistic.)

Also, I believe the officer asked the guy for his license; the guy immediately complied with the request and went to retrieve said item for the officer. After all, non-compliance with an officer tends to lead to suboptimal outcomes; I suppose most never really stopped to wonder if complying too quickly might lead to even worse results.

I know you went beyond the “They’re human”-kind of statement; I suppose I could readily not post this and nothing would be lost but my time. It’s just that so often the response begins and ends with that kind of opening and it digs at me each time. If nothing ever changes, nothing will ever change; and in instances like this, I think a bit of change would do society good.

 

[Denny347]

Alright, here is my problem with such responses to incidents: it puts no impetus on betterment or change. It is to remove all responsibility from all players; it is to say that if all players are human – or at least similar or relatable humans – that no lessons should be drawn. In fact, it is worse than that because it implies that there are no lessons that could be drawn. (

Now look, maybe it comes from being an outlier in most respects, but I try to take a view that for every bad event, for every mistake I make, the only way I can even move to make things right is to take what I can from the event. What lesson is there to learn? Where did I go wrong? How can I better spot this mistake? If I realize midway that I’m repeating it, how can I change the outcome? I suppose it’s akin to a consolation prize; I cannot undo the error, the mistake, or the event that led to whatever, but if I can get any gain from the experience, well, then it isn’t a complete unmitigated disaster. (Funny, though, as jotting it down makes me sound optimistic.)

Also, I believe the officer asked the guy for his license; the guy immediately complied with the request and went to retrieve said item for the officer. After all, non-compliance with an officer tends to lead to suboptimal outcomes; I suppose most never really stopped to wonder if complying too quickly might lead to even worse results.

I know you went beyond the “They’re human”-kind of statement; I suppose I could readily not post this and nothing would be lost but my time. It’s just that so often the response begins and ends with that kind of opening and it digs at me each time. If nothing ever changes, nothing will ever change; and in instances like this, I think a bit of change would do society good.

He owns his reaction but I promise you that the root of the problem lies in TRAINING. He is responsible but it does not end there. I would be very interested in the type of training the department receives.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Hey, remember when INGO told us that it was a good idea to talk to the police after gunfire?

Turns out, not such good idea.

Chilling new audio uncovered from SC shooting tape | MSNBC

 

[forgop]

Kinda like the South Park "it's coming right for us" mentality.

 

[ModernGunner]

Based on the video clip shown, if Groubert was that over-reactive, he had no business wearing a badge.

Like some others here, have been through that same (or very similar) scenario many, many times.

"You dove head first back into your car".

Yep, that cops word is gold in a court room without video. No matter how far his word is from reality.

Negative

Absolutely agree, phylodog. It's more than apparent that a great many folks simply don't have any knowledge or experience from which they opine and, typically, erroneously. As it was in this instance.

 

[drillsgt]

Someone got shot and somebody lost their job and got arrested over a seat belt violation, totally worth it.

 

[Draco]

Oh, please don’t misconstrue that post as a retraction of my earlier writing. :P Training is the problem, but it’s a bit deeper than that; there is training and there is the habit, the feeling of the institution, and this is the hardest of things to change. Contrast that with a policy fix where a simple revision does the trick, one can see the change in black and white; however, getting people to adopt the change and take it to heart, to change the institutional behavior, mindset, and mood is so much more difficult.

However, this tends to leave me in a rough spot when it comes to the situational repercussions of overreactions. If I fault the institution more than the worker, then should the worker suffer the brunt of the blame? If the General loses the war, ought we court martial the Privates that couldn’t make a losing strategy work? Except if the punishment falls on the institution as a whole and never on a living, breathing person who can actually feel the sting of a rebuke, the stress of a job in jeopardy, or the horror over killing an innocent, could I really expect change? It’d be like lecturing a tree for letting squirrels nest in it; try as you might, the tree cares not for your rants, rebukes, or condemnations. To that end, I suppose someone has to be punished, someone has to take the blame.

I’m just not quite sold that it should begin and end with the trooper in question. I feel as though he did what he was trained to do: survive at nearly any cost and afford the benefit of the doubt to no one if it should mean a risk to himself or his team.

Naturally, I could be absolutely wrong. I am not an LEO; I have no relation to that world, no experience, and no close contact. All that I say is merely the view from my isolated perch. Doubtless things are more complicated up close.

 

[Dead Duck]

Just found this.
They now have the "victim" as a political player, pushing for more police cameras. So be it.

They asked him if he would have done anything different, he said NO.
Granted, the cop asked him for ID while he was already standing outside the vehicle. He should have had him sit back down in the car and then asked for ID or walk to the cop's car first. Obviously the cop wasn't expecting him to dive back into the car but he did ask him for it. That cop opened a can of worms by not controlling his contact immediately and it got away from him real fast. Future training film? Oh Ya.

This guy seemed nervous and maybe that's why he acted all jumpy.
His answer should have been -
"In hindsight, I should have told the officer that my ID is in the vehicle, should I get it now instead of alarming the officer by diving back into my car. I guess I wouldn't have been shot now if I has just thought more about my actions then." - (like his lawyer will let him admit that)

Levar Jones: Video of cop shooting me is 'disturbing' - News - TODAY.com

 

[rambone]

They now have the "victim" as a political player, pushing for more police cameras. So be it.

Why do you put quotation marks around the word "victim"?

 

[T.Lex]

I guess getting "shot" isn't as bad as it used to be!

 

[Dead Duck]

Why do you put quotation marks around the word "victim"?

Uh - Because he isn't totally innocent?

Next time you get pulled over, do exactly what this guy did. You probably won't, because those actions are just not rational.

 

[rambone]

Uh - Because he isn't totally innocent?

Next time you get pulled over, do exactly what this guy did. You probably won't, because those actions are just not rational.

He was "totally innocent" by any legal or moral standard.

And his actions were completely "rational." He was following directions. Not arguing; complying. Submitting to police.

Is it not enough that citizens are submissive, they also have to be mind readers... so they don't spook their paranoid public servants into killing them?

 

[Dead Duck]

He was "totally innocent" by any legal or moral standard.

And his actions were completely "rational." He was following directions. Not arguing; complying. Submitting to police.

Is it not enough that citizens are submissive, they also have to be mind readers... so they don't spook their paranoid public servants into killing them?

I know, that you know better than that.

But then, OK - When you get pulled over - You do the exact same thing and see what happens.