Schools and guns...again...

[Arickosmo]

I know that this has probably been asked and answered but I haven't been able to find it.

Let's just say that a friend was able to convince a private school principal to allow for carry on school premises for the reason of picking up kids. Am I...er, my friend allowed to leave it in the car at that point or must I still maintain possession?

I understand that I can have it with me in the car and I can NOT leave it in my car nor carry it into school. However, I think I remember that if the person in charge of the school gives written permission, I can carry in the school. I really don't want to do this for fear that the other parents or kids might get uppity and I'm only trying to abide by the law.

So, IANAL or not, what say you? If I get permission to carry, can I then leave it in my car to pick up the littl'uns?

Here's food for thought. Another thread is beating the hell out of the question about LEO's being allowed to carry in schools. Agree or not, this raises the issue about leaving their service rifles or shotguns in their cars. That one, I'm afraid can NOT be debated based on training at all. A car is a car and to the best of my knowledge, a window in a patrol car is still glass. Therefore, if I install a SG rack in my truck, I'm EXACTLY as safe as the patrol car. Yes, I do have the rack.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I know that this has probably been asked and answered but I haven't been able to find it.

Let's just say that a friend was able to convince a private school principal to allow for carry on school premises for the reason of picking up kids. Am I...er, my friend allowed to leave it in the car at that point or must I still maintain possession?

I understand that I can have it with me in the car and I can NOT leave it in my car nor carry it into school. However, I think I remember that if the person in charge of the school gives written permission, I can carry in the school. I really don't want to do this for fear that the other parents or kids might get uppity and I'm only trying to abide by the law.

So, IANAL or not, what say you? If I get permission to carry, can I then leave it in my car to pick up the littl'uns?

Here's food for thought. Another thread is beating the hell out of the question about LEO's being allowed to carry in schools. Agree or not, this raises the issue about leaving their service rifles or shotguns in their cars. That one, I'm afraid can NOT be debated based on training at all. A car is a car and to the best of my knowledge, a window in a patrol car is still glass. Therefore, if I install a SG rack in my truck, I'm EXACTLY as safe as the patrol car. Yes, I do have the rack.

Good point re: the gun rack.

Were it me, I'd ask for the written permission to include having it on my person or in my locked vehicle. Remove the problem before it rears its ugly head.



Blessings,
Bill

 

[canav844]

IC 35-47-9
Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses
IC 35-47-9-0.1
Application of chapter
Sec. 0.1. The addition of this chapter by P.L.140-1994 applies to crimes committed after June 30, 1994.
As added by P.L.220-2011, SEC.624.

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

If I were to seek exemption in writing I'd want it to say something to the effect of

XYZ authority hereby authorizes, ABC LTCH holder to be exempt from the provisions of 35-47-9-2 in accordance with state law 35-47-9-1 (2).

IANAL, but I personally would want it to be as non-limiting as possible, and stick to and cite the statutes. Any stipulations would create a quandry that could put you at risk, from what you carry to how you carry it; and create the whole issue of IC gives authority to authorize exemptoin, it doesn't say anything about what is said beyond the authorization, voiding that authorization, nor what limits may be place on that authorization or what the penalties would be. And if you do have those stipulations I'd keep to them to avoid the risk of voiding your authorization. I'd rather not create those problems in the first place; keep it simple and then be allowed to posses firearms on school property in all manners that a licensed individual is allowed to do so.

Federal laws says if you're licensed by the state you may posses a firearm on school property. Doesn't matter if you're LE or not; now IN does not require them to have an LTCH but if they are licensed by the state as a law enforcement officer and part of that license is to carry a firearm then federal law sees it in the same capacity. Then the LEOs have the exemption from state law. State law is where the troubles come in in IN.

 

[Arickosmo]

I like. But really, I'm not concerned with buying the tent, I just want my nose under it. If I open the door, they'll have trouble closing it. I'm certainly not the only one carrying and the principal was actually surprised I was honest enough to ask. She seemed very interested and I don't think I over stepped my boundaries. Besides, if the answer is "no", I'll carry an empty holster exposed, every day, for a long time to make a point.

What do you guys make of leaving the gun in my car if allowed/permitted/exempted from the statute?

 

[sprshggy07]

Cars can't shoot guns so I don't see a problem as long as the car is locked.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Cars can't shoot guns so I don't see a problem as long as the car is locked.

The problem is that a gun left in a car is subject to being stolen. As he said, windows break. Leaving the gun out in plain sight, even in a rack, is IMHO, unwise, not to mention not in compliance with the "parking lot law" passed two years ago and revised last year. Gun in locked car, out of sight.

It seems there is an unwritten de facto exception for police vehicles.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[JoshuaW]

Bill, parking lot law doesn't exactly apply here, does it? If you have a written exemption, then you are exempt. You can leave it in the car as that law doesn't apply to you. I would just lock it in the car like you would anywhere else.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Bill, parking lot law doesn't exactly apply here, does it? If you have a written exemption, then you are exempt. You can leave it in the car as that law doesn't apply to you. I would just lock it in the car like you would anywhere else.

If your letter reads:

To whom it may concern:

As of 6 March, 2012, JoshuaW has permission to carry his handgun on the property of James Brady High School, Indianapolis, IN.

Charles Schumer
Principal

And you exit your vehicle without doing so or have a rifle in your car, you are not permitted by the text of your permission slip to do either of those things and would be in violation.

The parking lot law does not give an exemption to state statute on possessing a firearm on school property or property being used by a school for a school function, so your permission slip needs to do so, IMHO.

Make more sense now?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Arickosmo]

hehe...charles schumer...that's funny.

Now, I think what I'll aim for is a very bland, "I, supreme ruler of a private gradeschool, exempt Charles Darwin from Indiana Code #35-47-9-1." Then I'll just have a "gentlemans" agreement that I won't carry in the school. However, if I chose to, there is nothing that can be done about it. I really don't want to raise a stink. What I want is my Second Amendment rights and to not be taken to jail on a class D felony for exercising them.

Oh, and sprshggy, yes, leaving it in my car without being exempted is a class D felony.

(that way I can be in charge of natural selection)

 

[mrortega]

The problem is that a gun left in a car is subject to being stolen. As he said, windows break. Leaving the gun out in plain sight, even in a rack, is IMHO, unwise, not to mention not in compliance with the "parking lot law" passed two years ago and revised last year. Gun in locked car, out of sight.

It seems there is an unwritten de facto exception for police vehicles.

Blessings,
Bill

That's one of my great fears. I've actually carried into a few places that I shouldn't have because I calculated that there was a greater danger of an innocent person being hurt if I had locked it in my vehicle and someone got into it than me being found out and being in trouble. (To complicate matters, our just-paid-for-mini van has a bad habit of opening its side doors and rear hatch either on its own or when I've accidently hit a button. Because of that we are driving my pickup to Indy tomorrow instead of the more comfortable van because I will have to lock my pistol inside for several hours.)