Self-Defense Ammo

[BehindBlueI's]

Exactly...as a former volunteer EMT of 24 years...I have never even heard of an actual 'going through one person and into another' with regards to a direct center-mass hit with a standard home/personal defense handgun caliber round...with the exception of a non-lethal strike in and through an arm or upper shoulder type injury.

I've seen several instances were only the grace of God kept it from hitting someone else. A .357 magnum through a man's chest, through a security door, exterior door, interior wall, and finally stopped in a door header. Another similar stopped by a brick fireplace, bullet fragmented but it was some kind of .40.

.380 IMO is marginal and really no reason to carry one unless a BUG again IMO I would trust a small .38 snubnose far more.
So that being said we have a expert in defensive ammo here on INGO that has far more experience than me that I defer to for advice.

Agreed. If I had to carry a .380, I'd carry non-expanding rounds. If I had to carry expanding rounds due to policy, I'd carry hydra-shoks...which don't expand. They also might have a *slight* advantage due to profile making it slightly harder to skip off bone.

 

[Leadeye]

I remember an Indy police shooting years ago where an officer was hit, but the bullet actually turned out to be a pass through. This was back when everybody carried .357 magnum.

 

[ECS686]

Exactly...as a former volunteer EMT of 24 years...I have never even heard of an actual 'going through one person and into another' with regards to a direct center-mass hit with a standard home/personal defense handgun caliber round...with the exception of a non-lethal strike in and through an arm or upper shoulder type injury.

THPD had a couple over penitration issues with their 9mm load (think it was 127 gr ranger but not 100%) and one case Specifically when they used M&P 40 with 180 Golr Dots it went through the BG into a BG victim. (the victim was OK). Since they went to 45 Gold Dots they've had several hootings an all but one was fatal and none exited.

 

[theblackhat]

I realize this thread has some dust on it, but in my recent research for “the right” (for me) SD ammo, I can’t seem to find any reviews or articles where the ammo was tested in a “real world” environment. There is the rare vid of someone shooting thru a car door or drywall... all well and good.
I saw comments here regarding “over-penetration” or examples of unexpected outcomes with PD incidents.
Has anyone done real world simulations? In a “house” like environment with a simulated human body for the BG?

 

[Bigtanker]

I realize this thread has some dust on it, but in my recent research for “the right” (for me) SD ammo, I can’t seem to find any reviews or articles where the ammo was tested in a “real world” environment. There is the rare vid of someone shooting thru a car door or drywall... all well and good.
I saw comments here regarding “over-penetration” or examples of unexpected outcomes with PD incidents.
Has anyone done real world simulations? In a “house” like environment with a simulated human body for the BG?

Pick one of the major brands top of the line offerings like Gold Dot, HST, Critical Duty, make sure it works reliability in whatever gun you use, and forget about it. All of the above have been proven by law enforcement agencies all over the country. They work.

Don't get tangled up in "this bullet has better dry wall performance but this one goes through car doors better or this one does better through glass". Handguns suck at stopping a person. Multiple shots on target in a timely manner is more important than wether or not the bullet will expand.

 

[Dark Star]

I'm a bit of a nerd, and I love all the data in that article. I read this a few years ago and concluded that for me I'd just standardize all my SD ammo with 9mm Federal HST 124gr (std pressure). It penetrates, it expands, it's extremely consistent, and it's not terribly expensive ($0.50/rd).

Exactly the ammo I use and for the same reasons, reading this article and data and seeing the photos a couple years ago.

 

[Trapper Jim]

NO such thing as overpenetration. Under-expansion, yes. But not overpenetration.

Terminal Performance is secondary to shot placement. Important but in it’s order. Members of the 52 Club (3 17’s and one in the chamber) need not worry about TP as if they bypassed the commitment of learning shot placement their targets are only in trouble if they happen to move in front of a bullet. LE and Military aside, the weight and clutter of the nonsense that I need to carry two boxes of ammo on me where ever I go is not rational to me. These individuals have more of a chance of dying because of health issues, jealous lovers or car wrecks. When HC (high capacity)was sold to our populous we found it easier to carry more ammo than learn marksmanship. Kinda reminds me of the recent scandal of Hollywood stars buying their kids into college. It’s easier.
Finally we are seeing manufacturers cater to the less is more crowd by making more single stack guns. I know as a dinosaur in this gun culture today, many will not buy into less capacity, better marksmanship. That’s okay as there are situations where both have merit. However, the OP is about SD ammo. My take on the explosion of the vast marketing of so called better cartridges for SD is that we are still trying to improve our TP to make up for the fact we downsized in the first place. Before one spends over $2 a cartridge for ammo with names and fancy packaging like Mean Dogg, Mushroom Magic or Petal Poison, it would be wiser to save the money and practice more and shoot in competitions. No target has ever been neutralized by the sound of gun fire. Many of gun owners today have not or hopefully will not have to shoot another man. Only then will you know how you and your ammo will perform. Buying the bullet of the week will not make the difference as much as your skill level, character and composure no more than cargo pants make you a shooter.

Always glad to help.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I've seen several instances were only the grace of God kept it from hitting someone else.

I can now update this to I've seen one where the grace of God was absent. One bullet, one dead, one injured. I'll not go into any further detail in public, but for those that know me I'd be happy to show you (in person only) a photo of the bullet that was surgical removed from the injured party.

 

[DragonGunner]

I usually "run" with Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense in .45 ACP. I have been told by a well respected gunsmith, at least with regard to the smaller .45 ACP pistols to just use hardball and aim for the head.

I would guess that all depends on one's perspective.

Good ammo to use. I use Winchetser 220 gr. jacketed hollow points. I don't want ammo going through walls in a house, or "hardball" cutting through a body. Tell your gunsmith a guy told you using "hardball" and shooting at a hard skull even up close can cause the round not to penetrate, but rather glide around between the skull and skin and exit a ways around the skull at some point. At least with .45 ACP ammo ball ammo. And thats not keyboard ninja crap.

 

[ECS686]

Like stated pick a good quality round that any number of LE use and your probably as prepared as you can be. But what a lot of people (the ones that think they are the smartest in the room types) fail to take into account is, True Thigs that you are likely to have to encou ter are hard to neutralize and they don't read gel tests.

Seen quite a few Federal inmates walking around with being shot with everything to include 7.62 torso shots (ours and theirs) so while it might stop them 80 some percent survive handgun wounds and bonafide
hard core Thugs are probably a little higher rate

 

[mrortega]

I carry Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124+P in my Sig P250. If that round is good enough for many police departments it's good enough for me. I've also found my guns like the GDs. I've tested most of the major brands like HSTs (also very good in my guns), Ranger (shoots loose, disappointing pattern at 10 and 20 yards), and many others. It's like I'm using a different barrel or something. Anyway, FWIW.