Selling reloads to shooting buddies?

[modelflyer2003]

Up until now I have never let anyone fire any of my reloads. I didnt want to risk someone elses health while i was so green to reloading. I have loaded about 1500 rounds and had one squib. I was very new at the time and it was within the first 100 rounds I made. All of my other rounds have performed without error. What do you think of the idea of selling ammo to your shooting buddies to offset some of the equipment costs. I know that after making rounds for himself the average shooter should have broke even rather quickly. My time is very valuable and I don't want to be everyones source of cheap ammo but selling a box of .38 Special for $15 or so is cheaper for my friend and will cost me far less to produce. Do you sell your reloads?

 

[gunman41mag]

Up until now I have never let anyone fire any of my reloads. I didnt want to risk someone elses health while i was so green to reloading. I have loaded about 1500 rounds and had one squib. I was very new at the time and it was within the first 100 rounds I made. All of my other rounds have performed without error. What do you think of the idea of selling ammo to your shooting buddies to offset some of the equipment costs. I know that after making rounds for himself the average shooter should have broke even rather quickly. My time is very valuable and I don't want to be everyones source of cheap ammo but selling a box of .38 Special for $15 or so is cheaper for my friend and will cost me far less to produce. Do you sell your reloads?

I wouldn't sell my reloads, cause you can get sued if there is a problem & you'll only make peanuts

 

[booey50]

I think you need a ffl 06 to sell ammunition. Someone will be along to correct me on this though.

 

[Dargasonus]

Why not let your friend use your equipment and his own time?

 

[modelflyer2003]

Why not let your friend use your equipment and his own time?

Because he will see how easy it is and buy his own equipment [insert greedy grin and hand-wringing].

 

[Prometheus]

I think you need a ffl 06 to sell ammunition. Someone will be along to correct me on this though.

No you do not.

You do need a license to manufacture if you are going to sell your reloads though.

 

[sloughfoot]

If you go to any of the survival forums, they always talk about ammo as "currency" when everything collapses during their version of shtf.

Maybe you should get your ammo-less friends used to trading you steaks and whiskey and chocolate covered donuts and gas for your car in exchange for your ammo.

You all win this way....

 

[Bullfrog80]

I just have friends come over and help reload. If they put in the time they can share the spoils...

 

[booey50]

No you do not.

You do need a license to manufacture if you are going to sell your reloads though.

Uh I think that is what the OP is asking in the original message.

 

[sloughfoot]

I really don't think you need a license if you are trading for chocolate covered donuts.. If they object and push the issue, you can always bribe them with the proceeds of the trade.

 

[DownByTheTracks]

As far as I understand it, a person may not load ammunition and sell that ammo without a Type 06 FFL, and without registering with ITAR. A person may receive ammunition components from a person and assemble them, charging for the labor.

As with most situations like this, you will get 100 different answers, and even 13 answers from the same .gov agency. I would recommend keeping your reloading to yourself.

 

[Aszerigan]

I think you need a ffl 06 to sell ammunition. Someone will be along to correct me on this though.

You are correct. Anytime you load ammunition for profit or 'betterment of your financial status' as the government puts it, you are required to have an FFL06. Although there is a grey area - if your friend provides the BRASS, then you can reload it and not be liable to pay the 11% excise tax.

I really don't think you need a license if you are trading for chocolate covered donuts.. If they object and push the issue, you can always bribe them with the proceeds of the trade.

This is also correct, you don't need a license to trade loaded ammo for chocolate donuts - unless they're made out of money.

As far as I understand it, a person may not load ammunition and sell that ammo without a Type 06 FFL, and without registering with ITAR.

This is also correct - you may NOT sell ammunition that you've produced to a buddy, stranger, or anyone else without registering and obtaining the proper FFL. I know people do it - but that doesn't make it legal.

 

[Gareth]

I strongly suggest keeping such questionable transactions strictly confidential... And remember these five words should the need to use them arise: I have nothing to say.

 

[CountryBoy19]

No you do not.

You do need a license to manufacture if you are going to sell your reloads though.

I know it's already been covered, but the Type 06 FFL is the license to manufacture that is needed.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Here's a thought...

You might check with your insurance agent. If it's like other questions I've asked mine about "non-gun" related, but similar questions-- it's been like if you're doing it but not getting paid for it, you're covered. Of course they may look at re-loading completely differently.

Otherwise I agree about the liability. If somebody gets hurt, who are they going to blame first?

 

[booey50]

You are correct. Anytime you load ammunition for profit or 'betterment of your financial status' as the government puts it, you are required to have an FFL06. Although there is a grey area - if your friend provides the BRASS, then you can reload it and not be liable to pay the 11% excise tax.



This is also correct, you don't need a license to trade loaded ammo for chocolate donuts - unless they're made out of money.



This is also correct - you may NOT sell ammunition that you've produced to a buddy, stranger, or anyone else without registering and obtaining the proper FFL. I know people do it - but that doesn't make it legal.

now that we know that we cannot sell reloads without the almighty government saying so, can we trade or give away to family members?

 

[CountryBoy19]

now that we know that we cannot sell reloads without the almighty government saying so, can we trade or give away to family members?

Certainly. You can reload for beer or pizza etc. You can take components owned by that person and charge an hourly labor rate even. You just can't sell the ammunition itself.

The only exception to that IIRC, is if the ammo wasn't loaded with the intention of selling. Example: Larry stockpiled lots of reloaded ammo. Larry dies, and has no heirs interested in the ammo. All Larry's possessions are sold at auction; the ammo can be included in the sale at auction. Larry didn't plan to sell the ammo when he loaded it, so it is legal to sell it after the fact. You just cannot engage in the business of manufacturing ammo.

Business is underlined because that normally implies that there is an intent to make profit. If there is no "intent" there, then it's not a business.

ETA, I know it seems clear as mud, but that's the way things work with the gov, and ATF to be specific.

 

[dom1104]

You are correct. Anytime you load ammunition for profit or 'betterment of your financial status' as the government puts it, you are required to have an FFL06.

Betterment of your Financial Status.
Betterment of Mankind.
Betterment of Worserment effecting your Statusification of Enjoyablility of said activity.

Until this moment I had no idea "Betterment" was a word.

 

[Aszerigan]

now that we know that we cannot sell reloads without the almighty government saying so, can we trade or give away to family members?

Yes, trade or give your ammo away to your hearts content. Just don't take money with the other hand.

Certainly. You can reload for beer or pizza etc. You can take components owned by that person and charge an hourly labor rate even. You just can't sell the ammunition itself.

The only exception to that IIRC, is if the ammo wasn't loaded with the intention of selling. Example: Larry stockpiled lots of reloaded ammo. Larry dies, and has no heirs interested in the ammo. All Larry's possessions are sold at auction; the ammo can be included in the sale at auction. Larry didn't plan to sell the ammo when he loaded it, so it is legal to sell it after the fact. You just cannot engage in the business of manufacturing ammo.

Business is underlined because that normally implies that there is an intent to make profit. If there is no "intent" there, then it's not a business.

ETA, I know it seems clear as mud, but that's the way things work with the gov, and ATF to be specific.

Actually, you can't sell your time. That's considering selling 'the labor of manufacturing' which falls under the manufacturing statute.

And if Larry manufactured a bunch of ammo for stockpiling, then decided to sell it, he's still selling ammunition he manufactured. It would be the same as if I made ammo before I received my license and then sold it. It's still manufacture for profit, and that's a no-no, no matter what year (or decade) or purpose of the manufacture. Now, if Larry isn't alive anymore, then they're no way to prove intent - but Larry's family is still liable for any mishaps from his ammunition.

Clear as mud is a good way to put it. But rest assured that if something happens and your friend is injured, their 'council' will surely be looking for your license. If you don't have one, then you're in a world of, uh, mud.

 

[45pro]

Just a thought, but can you give away ammunition that you make if they provide the brass, and if they happen to "donate/tip you" for making it for them, is that the same thing as selling? Or would that be on the darker side of the "grey" area?