Shooting bags/gun rests for handguns

[mcapo]

Because a rifle's reaction to recoil and torque is completely different than a handgun. A handgun's barrel rises much faster and is affected by more torque than a heavy rifle and the bullet may not clear the barrel in time to leave the muzzle before it starts climbing. You could clamp a handgun tightly in a fixed rest but it will not print to the same POI as when handheld. It's not a case of "inaccuracy" - it's about where you set the sights for shooting off hand. For informal testing I just use an old backpack stuffed with old clothes or an old Carhartt jacket I keep in the truck.

If the question is testing accuracy - it doesn't matter what you do as long as you do it EXACTLY the same every time to mirror the EXACT reaction of the firearm. The issue is try to keep POA/POI the same rather on a rest or not. A whole lot of Physics occur in a very short time period in a handgun.

I can relate to this personally with a scoped 44 magnum. I kept on going back forth on a bag to handheld and could not get the damn thing to stay at a POA/POI. Given the weight of the gun, after awhile, I was resting the gun on the bag even though I knew better.

Once I rested only my forearms on the bag; voila! - consistent POA/POI.

This is why we freefloat and/or bed rifles to create consistent and repeatable physics in the firearm.

Doesn't mean a rest isn't valuable. I like to know what a handgun is capable of and then chase that accuracy without the aid of rest.

 

[Drail]

Aeroflyer 09 - That's about right. The torqueing action won't affect accuracy but the POI will be different if the barrel is free floating in front of your hand or trapped in a V block or a soft bag. The point here is that the gun will print the same size group whether it is clamped down or floating free but the center of that group will shift if the barrel is either unrestricted in movement or dampened by the rest. You can dial the sights in perfectly when firing from a rest but when it won't be in the same place when you fire offhand. Customers would frequently ask me to dial their sights in and I would ask them to go on the range with me so they could shoot it while we adjusted. The gun will recoil differently for different hands and personal gripping style and how much mass your arms have. There is however a difference between barrels on accuracy. Back in the 30s when Colt was building "real" National Match guns they would clamp production barrels in a rigid machine fixture and measure group sizes from each barrel (Bill Wilson would do the same thing when he first started building match grade guns and only use the best barrels) The ones that printed the tightest groups were hand chosen for their National Match guns while the others went into production line guns. With a standard production gun you may get a barrel that is tighter than other barrels or you may get one with rifling that has slightly looser specs. But every Colt barrel I have ever tested was very good. Some are just a little better. I only used a Ransom Rest for roughly sighting in a new gun with new sights on it and to check for any barrel springing caused by a bushing that was binding the barrel's movement (vertical stringing) and then I would tweak the sights to center that group on the bullseye and then shoot offhand to see where it would actually print offhand and then tweak the sights a little more when the customer would shoot it offhand. Sights that were dialed in perfectly for my grip would invarably be slightly different from the customer's grip. Most of the usuable accuracy of a handgun has much more to do with individual shooting techique than bore quality. Humans make lousy shooting rests because they all shoot differently by either chicken choking the gun as hard as they can - or allowing it to recoil freely. When I first started shooting competition I mistakenly attempted to "muscle" the gun to "control" recoil but I quickly learned that you could not do it consistently enough to win and you would just wear yourself out trying to stop it. It's better to let the gun recoil as long as the movement from recoil is the same for every shot. You only need to "control" the gun enough to see the front sight go straight up and come straight back down to the same place it was when you broke the shot. It doesn't really matter how much it moves up and down as long as it is only moves straight up and straight down and returns to the original point. If the barrel moves up and left (or right) then your grip is torqueing the gun. Consistency is the key.

 

[Notropis]

I also purchased the cheap (empty) caldwell bags. They're light duty (not suitable for sand in my opinion). I also filled with poly or "doll beads". As stated, you'll spend more on good beads than cheap bags. But, I found a deal on 5 pound sacks of beads and had enough to fill a few winter weight socks after filling the Caldwell bags. I'm happy with the combination.

 

[mcapo]

Unscented Kitty Litter.

Cheap fill...light weight. Don't get it wet.

 

[doddg]

Unscented Kitty Litter.

Cheap fill...light weight. Don't get it wet.

1. Brilliant! A true outlier insight!

 

[Doublehelix]

Unscented Kitty Litter.

Cheap fill...light weight. Don't get it wet.

Yep, especially the "Don't get it wet" part! It won't be light any more!

 

[doddg]

Finally got around to ordering some gun rests from "Cheaper than Dirt" that showed up in an email advertisement.
Been using 3 hardcase gun "bags" with a heavy washcloth and sock folded and stacked on top that I keep in my suitcase on wheels I take to the range.
After reading here, I was simply going to get a smallish zippered bag and fill it with beans, but I stumbled on to these and decided to splurge , so as not to embarrass any INGO friend I might shoot with.

GNS-843-002
Outdoor Connection
Three Piece Bench Bag Set Filled


Merchandise Subtotal: $26.16
Shipping: $9.95
Tax: $2.53
Order Total: $38.64

 

[Butch627]

I am always surprised when someone admits that they buy from Cheaper Than Dirt

 

[doddg]

I am always surprised when someone admits that they buy from Cheaper Than Dirt

1. I'm always surprised when I hear that we aren't supposed to buy from 137 different vendors for political reasons.
2. It reminds me back in the mid-60s, my Mom, being a very religious woman, stopped buying groceries from Kroger b/c they started selling wine.
3. There are states we shouldn't live in, coffee we shouldn't buy and clothes that should be off limits, all b/c of abuses inherent within.
4. The list is endless and is determined by who you are talking to: there are people waiting in line to add to that list.
5. We live in an evil world (imo) and it will not get better b/c of abandoning basic moral values, mores (french-based word), and cultural norms.
6. I bought a gun at Rural King once, and I heard that it was off limits also, like some gun manufactures.
7. I should have kept a list.

 

[MCgrease08]

Cheaper Than Dirt is on the Mt. Rushmore of companies not to buy from. They are in a class by themselves, not for political reasons but for straight up price gouging.

We're talking $60 for a $7 box of Tula steel cased 9mm. $80 for a single Pmag.

 

[nipprdog]

Cheaper Than Dirt is on the Mt. Rushmore of companies not to buy from. They are in a class by themselves, not for political reasons but for straight up price gouging.

We're talking $60 for a $7 box of Tula steel cased 9mm. $80 for a single Pmag.

Yep.

 

[doddg]

Cheaper Than Dirt is on the Mt. Rushmore of companies not to buy from. They are in a class by themselves, not for political reasons but for straight up price gouging.
We're talking $60 for a $7 box of Tula steel cased 9mm. $80 for a single Pmag.

1. Yes, I've been surprised at their name and have never bought from them b/c their prices on items I'd be looking for were not competitive.
2. In the case of the gun rests, I had quit looking b/c prices were more than I imagined, and I was just going to go with the beans in a bag concept, but timing is everything and I liked the idea of 3 different "rests" to suit my different attitudes at any given time.
3. Since it is just business, not political, I don't mind rewarding them when a price is equitable.

 

[Butch627]

1. I'm always surprised when I hear that we aren't supposed to buy from 137 different vendors for political reasons.
2. It reminds me back in the mid-60s, my Mom, being a very religious woman, stopped buying groceries from Kroger b/c they started selling wine.
3. There are states we shouldn't live in, coffee we shouldn't buy and clothes that should be off limits, all b/c of abuses inherent within.
4. The list is endless and is determined by who you are talking to: there are people waiting in line to add to that list.
5. We live in an evil world (imo) and it will not get better b/c of abandoning basic moral values, mores (french-based word), and cultural norms.
6. I bought a gun at Rural King once, and I heard that it was off limits also, like some gun manufactures.
7. I should have kept a list.

You sure like to make lists

 

[doddg]

You sure like to make lists

I catch alot of grieve b/c of it; you'd think I'd stop and just write 1 big paragraph.
I've tried to leave the numbers out and just start on the left with each sentence w/o the numbers, like I'm doing now.
There is something wrong with me but as long as I work and pay my taxes the government doesn't imprison me.