Shotgun for HD misconception

[nimrodder]

I'm inclined to believe you'd be better off getting rid of the HD shotgun and getting a Therapist because , so it seems to me, that you have a strange facination with shooting bad guys in the knoggin LOL .

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Guess I'll have to get rid of my shotgun & get a better HD gun like a 380

Yup - that is exactly what I said...

 

[techres]

Or a krink...

 

[whocares]

Its called bird shot so freakin what. Do I hunt buck with 00buck shot? No.

What would happen to a dove or even a quail or duck if you shot it at 15 feet with an aimed load of #6. It would explode into a cloud of feathery slop. The term birdshot is only a non technical reference it does not mean this load is designed to strictly kill birds.

I really dont understand how anyone who shoots a 12 gauge could even question what would happen to a target at that close of a range. It is not a question of if it would be effective, its a statement that yes it is. You can argue for the sake of arguing a point, but youd still be wrong to think that this load in that proximity is anything less than devestating to a target.

 

[Hookeye]

But what if the coyote is behind the corner of the wall?

2x4's and a couple layers of sheetrock, or worse- plaster and lath.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Its called bird shot so freakin what. Do I hunt buck with 00buck shot? No.

What would happen to a dove or even a quail or duck if you shot it at 15 feet with an aimed load of #6. It would explode into a cloud of feathery slop. The term birdshot is only a non technical reference it does not mean this load is designed to strictly kill birds.

I really dont understand how anyone who shoots a 12 gauge could even question what would happen to a target at that close of a range. It is not a question of if it would be effective, its a statement that yes it is. You can argue for the sake of arguing a point, but youd still be wrong to think that this load in that proximity is anything less than devestating to a target.

Nobody questions the possibility of lethality - everyone notes that.

What people question is how consistently it can stop a determined attacker, and the trade off of using it as a self defense round over the loads more commonly accepted for the purpose of self defense.

This "myth" stems from real world accounts where people were shot at close range with birdshot and would have still posed a threat if not for psychological factors. While almost all rounds have similar stories, this one seems to have a much larger number of them than most.

With very few exceptions, a round that will consistently neutralize human threats will consistently go through the walls of a common residence.

If you shoot #6 birdshot in the direction of an innocent person in the next room, you are still putting them in danger. While using heavier shot would plausibly put them in more danger, it is also going to be significantly more consistent at putting down a determined attacker. Your best bet is to know what is behind your target to the best of your ability, and ensure to the best of your ability that you are not firing in the direction of innocent life.

I do not question the possibility that birdshot could stop an attacker - I question if the minor increase in safety is worth significantly decreasing penetration to the point that vital organs may not be reached, greatly decreasing the chance that it will stop a determined attacker.

 

[ol' Huff]

Or a krink...

Its only a conversation piece.

 

[chezuki]

https://www.google.com/search?q=bir...w&biw=1269&bih=610&sei=vMqdT-v0CorbgQf529CHDw/QUOTE]

The search for "birdshot wounds" produces multiple images of people LIVING with horrific wounds. The search for "buckshot wounds" produces multiple autopsy images of cadavers with horrific wounds.

 

[KoopaKGB]

How far was the guy from Cheney when he got shot with birdshot to the face? I'm sure further then hallway distances, just a question.

 

[calcot7]

Heck, just the wad from a shell with the shot removed, will hurt a body pretty bad. If you're not worried about penetration, after loading the shot removed shells in the gun, shove some arrows down the barrels.

 

[jeremy]

Here is a little factoid...

Fact...
In Bosnia, my #2 man in my Stack made entry into a Hostile Structure as he cut the room he was shot in his left thigh with both barrels from a 12 gauge firing birdshot from a distance of approx 5 feet. He only had BDUs on, no supplimental armor. It broke his femur to the point he now has an entire Ti replacement one. He killed his assailent and one other shooter in his sector of fire, before the room was secured. It did hamburger his leg in the region of the shot, but was unable to even penetrate far enough to nick the femoral...

 

[Regulus]

Although a little old (1998), I found this article interesting. I am fairly new to the shotgun world and have not had an opportunity to fashion an opinion based on personal experience.

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition, .357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

Sorry if this is link is a repost.

 

[Hookeye]

Here is a little factoid...

Fact...
In Bosnia, my #2 man in my Stack made entry into a Hostile Structure as he cut the room he was shot in his left thigh with both barrels from a 12 gauge firing birdshot from a distance of approx 5 feet. He only had BDUs on, no supplimental armor. It broke his femur to the point he now has an entire Ti replacement one. He killed his assailent and one other shooter in his sector of fire, before the room was secured. It did hamburger his leg in the region of the shot, but was unable to even penetrate far enough to nick the femoral...

Fact- you don't state what size of birdshot was used.

Heck, in Muncie a guy just took two rounds from his own SKS at point blank range and is alive

 

[jeremy]

Fact- you don't state what size of birdshot was used.

I'll send L an email and ask him...

 

[dom1104]

In my house, shotguns are for hunting.

AR15s are so much easier for my wife, who is the primary defender of the home for the 9+ hours I am away from it every day, to use.

I find it ..... interesting to read about how much trouble it is to find an appropriate load for shotgun folks.

 

[cosermann]

Eight pages later and I think it's funny that a thread with "misconception" in the subject line is filled with so many misconceptions!

Jeremy's example is an interesting one because that's pretty close to the distance that a load of shot stops acting as a single mass and begins acting more like individual shot. Certainly by 10 feet or so, shot (of any size) tends to penetrate to a depth commensurate with its mass and sectional density; not as a single mass (like a slug).

Here's an article that may be of interest:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Edit: Another FAQ for consideration:
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176

 

[jeremy]

Fact- you don't state what size of birdshot was used.

I'll send L an email and ask him...

Got L's reply back. They mike out between .100-.130...

So what size shot is that...

 

[nimrodder]

#7 shot is .10 cal and #4 shot is .13 cal.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Got L's reply back. They mike out between .100-.130...

So what size shot is that...

#7 shot is .10 cal and #4 shot is .13 cal.

Distorted perhaps?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Eight pages later and I think it's funny that a thread with "misconception" in the subject line is filled with so many misconceptions!

Jeremy's example is an interesting one because that's pretty close to the distance that a load of shot stops acting as a single mass and begins acting more like individual shot. Certainly by 10 feet or so, shot (of any size) tends to penetrate to a depth commensurate with its mass and sectional density; not as a single mass (like a slug).

Here's an article that may be of interest:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Edit: Another FAQ for consideration:
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176

Birdshot never acts like one mass because it isn't.