Should a "practice gun" be similar to your "carry gun"?

[45fan]

I had a firearms instructor tell me that you should dry fire a weapon 100 times for every practice round you put down range....

It seems like he was a little over zealous with his dry firing, but you get the point. And it is a good one.

Dry fire is a great way to get to know your gun, and feel comfortable with it. Just make sure to use snap caps if the gun can not handle it. Some pistols will beat the firing pin up (or worse) if dry fired without a snap cap.

 

[melensdad]

I'm shopping for a .22 handgun to practice with and I feel that it should be similar in feel to my 9mm that I carry. I know that some opinions are going to be practice with the 9mm, and I do, but ammo is a little more pricey than a .22. I've seen lots of recommendations for all the "target guns" [Browning, Ruger, etc.], but does that different feel of those guns translate back? Or am I over thinking this thing altogether and I just need to keep shooting no matter what the weapon? Opinions?

I compete with this.
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Carry this
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shoot 22lr out of this.
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Works for me.

Man after my own heart and I share the same theory. I want my guns to be of very similar operation with the controls in the same place, doing the same things, working the same way.

My first pistol was a S&W 4513 and the first pistol I ever sold off was that same S&W 4513 (but it was many years later). After that S&W I started shooting 1911 pistols, and Browning HP pistols and then CZ 75 pistols. The Browning HP and the CZ 75 are functionally IDENTICAL to the 1911 in that all can be safely carried cocked & locked with all the controls in the same places, the grip angle the same, the levers working the same. . . I didn't have to think when I grabbed any of those types of guns which way to flip the safety --- up and away on the slide, or down under my thumb, or curl my thumb and find a small button to depress, etc. So if I was wiping sleep out of my eyes and grabbing my nightstand gun, or out at the range practicing quick draws from a holster or whatever, my muscle memory knew how to work that gun because all the guns I was shooting were operationally and functionally IDENTICAL arms.

Every time I picked up a Walther or S&W or Beretta or similar guns I fumbled with the gun because the safety is slide mounted and operates in the opposite manner. I never found practice with a Ruger 22 to be satisfying or comfortable or complete. Being a reloader, cost of ammo was not a major concern, but about a year ago I did buy a CZ 22 conversion kit and have it permanently installed on one of my CZ 75 pistols.

I do have some other pistols/brands too. I picked up a couple Taurus PT series pistols to try out in a couple different calibers. But they have the thumb safety in the same spot, operating the same way as the 1911, even if other things are a bit different. I also have some Glocks and several pocket pistols. I justify those by arguing they have no thumb safety at all and if I sweep my thumb down the side like I would when I unholster a 1911 then I have not wasted any time because the gun is still ready to fire. Further, under stress, my muscle memory and training kick in and I have no issues to contend with trying to over-ride that . . . by the way, for folks who think muscle memory/training can be overcome, did you bother to watch the experienced shooter who shot himself in the leg as he was drawing his very familiar weapon out of an unfamiliar Serpa holster? That incident looks like it might be leading to some changes in the IDPA competition rules outlawing that type of holster!

So YES, I do think it is important to PRACTICE/TRAIN with a gun that is FUNCTIONALLY VERY SIMILAR to your carry weapon. And with the advent of the 22lr conversion kits, most any popular duty grade weapon can be quickly converted into a cheap shooting 22 pistol in a matter of seconds.

As always, JMHO

 

[dom1104]

I agree with Melensdad.

Last night, I was taking out the trash at 11:30 at night. No flashlight. No illumination whatsoever. just taking out the trash.

I pulled the trash can away from the house, when behind it, snacking on a bit of something, was a very stinky, smelly opponent, who raised his tail and made it clear he was in a spraying mood.

Out came the gun in what seemed to me to be faster than any IDPA run I have ever done, and the skunk received 3 45 ACP slugs which ended the confrontation in a "MILDLY" less stinky manner. At least it wasnt all over my face, and seems to have cleared up by morning.

No light, no "night sights", no "forgetting to turn the safety off"...

Shooting the same type of gun worked for me last night. 3 shots 3 hits.

Now I gotta buy lids for the garbage cans

 

[dom1104]

Oh, and by the way, any USPSA guys that say IDPA is silly for using cover, you had better BELIEVE that I was "Slicing the pie" around that garbage can, and I was glad for every last BIT of cover I could get

Just wanted to toss that out there to tick off a few members

 

[rhino]

Last night, I was taking out the trash at 11:30 at night. No flashlight. No illumination whatsoever. just taking out the trash.

Dude, I can't argue with your results. You prevailed over Pepe Le Phew, and that's what counts.

But get a light and always have it with you when you go out at night. Just do it. Even if you choose to not have your gun, have your light.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I have a Walther P22 that has been flawless. I like the fact that you can decock the hammer. As my full size carry gun is hammer fired, and I carry with the hammer down. I would also look at the Buckmark. They have the feel and weight of a full size handgun.

 

[hoosierbulldog]

I have a Walther P22 that has been flawless. I like the fact that you can decock the hammer. As my full size carry gun is hammer fired, and I carry with the hammer down. I would also look at the Buckmark. They have the feel and weight of a full size handgun.

Thanks for your input. I'm still looking, but I'm in the process of narrowing down.

 

[sgreen3]

If your just looking to shoot then yes a .22 by all means, but to be proficient with your carry gun you would need to practice with it I would think

 

[EPD1102]

I don't see anything wrong with having a practice gun if you can't afford to shoot your carry gun as much as you'd like to. The acts of working on your point of aim, sight alignment, etc. will all benefit from the practice as long as your practice gun is as close as possible to your carry gun. I used to use a variety of different carry positions for guns such as waistband, shoulder holster, etc. until one day when I needed to access my weapon and I reached for my belt but my gun was in a shoulder holster. It felt like a month went by in the time that it took for me to go from my strong-side waistband to the shoulder holster under my weak-side armpit. I now always carry in the same position and almost always only shoot weapons with similar grip angles and functioning. Muscle memory can be very important under stress.

 

[AF Gunner]

If it's not your carry gun, then yes!!!

 

[Twisterx44]

There are many carry guns with interchangable barrels for the very reason being debated. I know Kimber has a .22LR conversion kit for their 1911s, and there have to be some for Glocks too, not sure about XDs. I see that as a viable way to do it.

 

[hoosierbulldog]

There are many carry guns with interchangable barrels for the very reason being debated. I know Kimber has a .22LR conversion kit for their 1911s, and there have to be some for Glocks too, not sure about XDs. I see that as a viable way to do it.

This was the first thing that I thought of, but I didn't find a conversion for the XDM. If anyone finds one, let me know, I'd love to look at it. Thanks for all the input.

 

[18Shooter]

Yes, I agree that defense practice guns should have similar characteristics to the guns I carry. Just for that reason, I have a couple of handgun pairs that have similar characteristics. I practice with the stronger, heavier guns most of the time, and save the lighter guns for carry.

For example, I shoot a Smith and Wesson 9VE (9mm), which weighs about 30 ounces fully loaded for practice, but I usually carry a Kel-tec PF9 (9mm), which weighs about 13 ounces fully loaded. It should be noted that I have fired hundreds of rounds through my Kel-tec gun with no malfunctions, and I still fired it at least once a month and clean it thoroughly. Also, I realize these two guns are very different in size and weight, but they both function the same way as DAO (double action only) semi-autos with three-dot sighting systems. I fire hotter ammo through the bigger gun in an effort to produce recoil as close to the smaller gun as feasible.

I do the same thing with my revolvers. I use the Ruger SP101 snub revolver for most of my revolver practice sessions. It is heavier than my Rossi snub gun, which I carry a lot. I know the Ruger gun will last and last through the years, so I use it the most. The Rossi is very reliable, and I have customized the front sights on both guns so they hit close to the same point with similar .38 special +P ammo.

I feel the same way about the ammo I use for practice--that it should be as much like my defense ammo as possible. I can't afford to practice exclusively with premium defense ammo, so I've come up with a system that allows me to come close to the real deal. I have developed a couple of 9mm handloads that come close to the same point of impact, velocity, COL (cartridge overall length), and shape as my carry ammo. I've done the same thing with my revolver ammo, except the shape is not an issue with a revolver, so I just use the cheapest, most accurate hard cast bullets I can afford.

Practice makes permanent!

 

[451_Detonics]

A lot depends on how much you shoot. I have read the arguments about only practicing with the gun you carry so you don't get confused when it comes to the fire controls but I shoot and have shot so much my hands know what to do with each of the guns I carry. There is no hesitation when I switch back and for between a 1911 and a HK P7M8, or between it and a revolver. How all my guns operate has been well ingrained in my muscle memory.

For someone who shoots very little however it does make sense to keep the basic controls the same. I would also point out someone who spends little time in practice really isn't prepared to carry a gun however.

 

[Superj]

I spent a little over $300 and bought an advantage arms .22 conversion kit for my G17 and have no regrets. I like to head to the range and do draw and fire drills first with my .22 kit. The beauty of the kit is that I can run hundreds of rounds downrange without it being painful in my pocket. I then followup by swapping back to my factory slide and run regular rounds so that I don't get lax with the .22 recoil.

 

[18Shooter]

Very good point! I shoot a lot too, but I can remember when I first started. It was quite a chore to remember all the elements of safety, defense, stance, grip, accuracy, etc., especially after I bought my second handgun, which was very different from my first.

Now my main struggle is in the area of presentation of arms. At the club where I shoot, we're not allowed to "draw and fire" from a holster. There may be some competitions where they do this, but I'm not aware of it. My club is only 2 miles away.

As suggested in an earlier post, for now I guess I'll have to be satisfied to practice drawing in the house with an empty gun (and an empty house). I only practice drawing when I'm alone at home.

 

[growl18]

Bought a bersa/firestorm 22 to shoot cheaper than my Bersa 380. Same size and manual of arms. Plus The 22 is a blast to plink with.

 

[18Shooter]

That's a great looking pair. Looks like you have just about a perfect match.

It's a shame that .380 acp ammo is usually so expensive to buy. Most of the .380 components should be cheaper than 9mm, but they get away with gouging with .380's. The same thing is true with so-called "sub-gauge" shotshells. 12 gauge shells take considerably more component material than .410, 28, and 20 gauge, yet the prices of 12 gauge shells are considerably less. Even 16 gauge, which is just a whisker away from 12 gauge, is priced way too high. Reloading for the less popular or "sub" gauges -- that's where the saving really kick in.

I have thought about getting a .40 cal. version of my 9mm Smith and Wesson Sigma. I could shoot the 9mm most of the time at the range, and save the .40 for business. Where I live there are murders and robberies almost every day, and I have personally been robbed and shot at. If I decided to go to a bigger caliber, that S&W 40VE is virtually identical to my 9VE, except for a slightly wider stance, which is hardly noticeable. The savings for ammo may not be very much, but it would be an excuse to buy another gun!

 

[ryknoll3]

That's a great looking pair. Looks like you have just about a perfect match.

It's a shame that .380 acp ammo is usually so expensive to buy. Most of the .380 components should be cheaper than 9mm, but they get away with gouging with .380's. The same thing is true with so-called "sub-gauge" shotshells. 12 gauge shells take considerably more component material than .410, 28, and 20 gauge, yet the prices of 12 gauge shells are considerably less. Even 16 gauge, which is just a whisker away from 12 gauge, is priced way too high. Reloading for the less popular or "sub" gauges -- that's where the saving really kick in.

I have thought about getting a .40 cal. version of my 9mm Smith and Wesson Sigma. I could shoot the 9mm most of the time at the range, and save the .40 for business. Where I live there are murders and robberies almost every day, and I have personally been robbed and shot at. If I decided to go to a bigger caliber, that S&W 40VE is virtually identical to my 9VE, except for a slightly wider stance, which is hardly noticeable. The savings for ammo may not be very much, but it would be an excuse to buy another gun!

It's not gouging. It's supply and demand. While the components are cheaper because they are smaller, they make and sell FAR, FAR, FAR less .380 than they do 9mm Luger. Therefore they do fewer runs of .380, they're going to be more expensive. Same thing with the shotgun shells.

For a more fair comparison, look at the three most popular semi-auto handgun cartridges: 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. They pretty much proportionate in price as you have supposed they should be. That's because they are all very popular cartridges and are made in similar, very large batches.

 

[Fireburnzero1]

I agree, If your going carry a 9mm then you should spend a good bit of time at the range with your carry firearm. I carry a .45 a love to **** the hell out of it. but it can get pricey. when i want to watch my money i go for the 22 conversion kit.