Should it be legal for foreign nationals to own & carry guns?

[Sylvain]

OK as a member of the country club , when i go out on the course i can use any club I want to. but as a GUEST , I can only use a root or a putter , if I want to have full play in the game , I need to buy a membership , that doesn't mean I can't play golf , that only means if I want full course rights
I have to be a member

Im not saying I should have all the rights a US citizen have, just that my right to self defense is not given by citizenship.

 

[jsharmon7]

THEY'RE NOT *OUR* RIGHTS. THEY'RE *EVERYBODY'S* RIGHTS.

That's just the thing though. When we decide who can and can't be here via the immigration process, we're essentially deciding who gets those rights and who doesn't. If we like you then you get to come join the club and have your human rights to things like free speech and free religion and self-protection recognized. If we don't like you then you can beat feet back to wherever you're from to live as a slave. If we're talking about universal human rights then we should allow everybody to come here to exercise those rights. We should be a safe haven for all those oppressed. If we don't think we owe anybody that safe haven, then we don't owe them anything else.

It's hard for me to reconcile "if we say you can be here" with "land of the free." If we're supposed to be a sovereign nation with secure borders then we aren't really the land of the free, we're "the land of US citizens and those others we let come here and be free." That leaves two options as I see it: A.) We're a secure and sovereign nation that recognizes certain conditional rights of its citizens and those others whom we decide are worthy. B.) We're a truly free land where people can come as they are and live their lives as free men and women and have all those natural rights I mentioned. In reality, we're closer to A than we are B. If that's the case, then these "natural human rights" are just rights recognized by the government to those who pass "rush week" or those like us who are "legacy members" of the club of the United States of America.

In the end, I'm fine with letting everybody have the opportunity to effectively defend himself/herself but I definitely wouldn't think we would be wrong to restrict it for non-citizens if we see fit.

 

[rooster007]

Im not saying I should have all the rights a US citizen have, just that my right to self defense is not given by citizenship.

Get you a stick or machete

 

[Kutnupe14]

Im not saying I should have all the rights a US citizen have, just that my right to self defense is not given by citizenship.

From all I know of you, I wouldnt have a problem with you owning a firearm. I personally think that any American should be able to walk into any store, flash a US or State id, and procure a weapon.

I think things should be different for foreign nationals. It is unsettling to think that of the 50 million legal foreign nationals that visit the US each year (300,000 of which become illegal "vistors"), each one of them would have the ability to purchase a firearm without some sort of checking mechanism (specifically for the procurement of a firearm).

 

[Sylvain]

Get you a stick or machete

Well foreign nationals can legally buy a gun and even carry in Indiana.
That doesnt mean I dont also have a stick and a machete.
They dont run out of ammo.

 

[rooster007]

Let me see If I can help some of you change your mind

I am from Algeria
I am a card carrying member of Al Qaeda
I am not a U.S. citizen
I have 14 tons of fertilizer in my basement
I am here on an expired student visa
I have not paid any taxes since I have been here
I am married
I have 6 kids
I receive 4000.00 per month in federal aid


I have some hillbilly/halfbreed crack addict neighbors that are threatening me do I have the right to go out and arm myself up , like must of you have



Just some food for thought

 

[eldirector]

Let me see If I can help some of you change your mind

I am from Algeria
I am a card carrying member of Al Qaeda
I am not a U.S. citizen
I have 14 tons of fertilizer in my basement
I am here on an expired student visa
I have not paid any taxes since I have been here
I am married
I have 6 kids
I receive 4000.00 per month in federal aid


I have some hillbilly/halfbreed crack addict neighbors that are threatening me do I have the right to go out and arm myself up , like must of you have



Just some food for thought

Well, then you are here illegally, and should be escorted to the nearest border.

The 14 tons of fertilizer would have you in a tad bit of trouble as well. Some of the farmers on here know the regs better than I do.

Al Qaeda issues cards? That would certainly make things easier....

 

[jbombelli]

That's just the thing though. When we decide who can and can't be here via the immigration process, we're essentially deciding who gets those rights and who doesn't. If we like you then you get to come join the club and have your human rights to things like free speech and free religion and self-protection recognized. If we don't like you then you can beat feet back to wherever you're from to live as a slave. If we're talking about universal human rights then we should allow everybody to come here to exercise those rights. We should be a safe haven for all those oppressed. If we don't think we owe anybody that safe haven, then we don't owe them anything else.

It's hard for me to reconcile "if we say you can be here" with "land of the free." If we're supposed to be a sovereign nation with secure borders then we aren't really the land of the free, we're "the land of US citizens and those others we let come here and be free." That leaves two options as I see it: A.) We're a secure and sovereign nation that recognizes certain conditional rights of its citizens and those others whom we decide are worthy. B.) We're a truly free land where people can come as they are and live their lives as free men and women and have all those natural rights I mentioned. In reality, we're closer to A than we are B. If that's the case, then these "natural human rights" are just rights recognized by the government to those who pass "rush week" or those like us who are "legacy members" of the club of the United States of America.

In the end, I'm fine with letting everybody have the opportunity to effectively defend himself/herself but I definitely wouldn't think we would be wrong to restrict it for non-citizens if we see fit.

We apparently will have to disagree. I will simply never see the right to keep and bear arms as dependent on where you are or where you're from or how you got there. Unless of course it's jail or prison. Same with freedom of speech, religion, assembly . . .

And we seem to have gone to great lengths over the last hundred years defending many of these rights around the world in many places.

 

[rooster007]

Well, then you are here illegally, and should be escorted to the nearest border.

The 14 tons of fertilizer would have you in a tad bit of trouble as well. Some of the farmers on here know the regs better than I do.

Al Qaeda issues cards? That would certainly make things easier....

COME ON RYAN , IN YOUR OPION DO I STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT MYSELF WITH A GUN AND BE COVERED BY THE CONSTITUTION

 

[Sylvain]

Let me see If I can help some of you change your mind

I am from Algeria
I am a card carrying member of Al Qaeda
I am not a U.S. citizen
I have 14 tons of fertilizer in my basement
I am here on an expired student visa
I have not paid any taxes since I have been here
I am married
I have 6 kids
I receive 4000.00 per month in federal aid


I have some hillbilly/halfbreed crack addict neighbors that are threatening me do I have the right to go out and arm myself up , like must of you have



Just some food for thought

I know lots of good guys from Algeria.
I dont think Al Qaeda issue a menber card.
And how gets that much in federal aids? not even US citizens.
What's wrong about being married and having 6 kids?

Im not saying you should sale guns to anybody.A background check just like for US citizens is all that's needed to make sure you dont sale weapons to terrorists or illegal aliens.
If you have the green light from the FBI then anyone could buy a gun.
That's already the case for some types of non-US citizens.

 

[jbombelli]

Let me see If I can help some of you change your mind

I am from Algeria
I am a card carrying member of Al Qaeda
I am not a U.S. citizen
I have 14 tons of fertilizer in my basement
I am here on an expired student visa
I have not paid any taxes since I have been here
I am married
I have 6 kids
I receive 4000.00 per month in federal aid


I have some hillbilly/halfbreed crack addict neighbors that are threatening me do I have the right to go out and arm myself up , like must of you have



Just some food for thought

My mind isn't changed. That's the price of a free society. Now get out of here with your expired visa and come back properly. I'll even hold on to your guns for you while you're gone.

 

[Sylvain]

My mind isn't changed. That's the price of a free society. Now get out of here with your expired visa and come back properly. I'll even hold on to your guns for you while you're gone.

That's very nice of you!
I would think about you if I were here on a Visa, expired or not.
Could you hold on my ammo too, I heard it can go bad with time so I would let you shoot it.

 

[rooster007]

THANK YOU, MY INFIDEL BROTHER , ON MY WAY BACK , SHOULD I COME THROUGH CANADA OR MEXICO . OR MAYBE JUST FLY RIGHT INTO INDY

 

[jsharmon7]

We apparently will have to disagree. I will simply never see the right to keep and bear arms as dependent on where you are or where you're from or how you got there. Unless of course it's jail or prison. Same with freedom of speech, religion, assembly . . .

And we seem to have gone to great lengths over the last hundred years defending many of these rights around the world in many places.

Actually, we probably agree on this more than we disagree, I'm simply taking it a little further. I too believe that freedom of speech, religion, self-protection are natural human rights that everyone should enjoy without restriction. The problem is that when we restrict immigration to this country and thereby access to those freedoms, we are limiting the ability of human beings to enjoy those rights as they should. If one believes that every human has the same fundamental rights to freedom of religion, speech, etc. then we shouldn't turn any human being away from the borders of the land of the free. I would estimate a lot of people are against opening up the borders because of the impact it could have on the economy or national security. If those are legitimate concerns, then I think kutnupe's concern for national security in allowing non-citizens to own weapons is also a legitimate concern. What I'm saying is that we live in the greatest country on Earth, one of the few in history that respects those fundamental human rights you mentioned. So, why can't we let everyone have the same opportunity to enjoy that freeom? The short answer: it would probably screw us royally. If we can deny access to those fundamental human rights via denial of entry into the US in the name of protecting our country and its citizens, we can restrict foreign nationals from owning weapons if there is a forseeable threat to national security. Just my that everyone is free to take or leave.

 

[jeremy]

Let me see If I can help some of you change your mind

I am from Algeria
I am a card carrying member of Al Qaeda
I am not a U.S. citizen
I have 14 tons of fertilizer in my basement
I am here on an expired student visa
I have not paid any taxes since I have been here
I am married
I have 6 kids
I receive 4000.00 per month in federal aid


I have some hillbilly/halfbreed crack addict neighbors that are threatening me do I have the right to go out and arm myself up , like must of you have



Just some food for thought

I am going to just address the Bold Red section...

First, 14 tons of Fertilizer is only enough for roughly 5 acres. Depending on the type of Fertilizer as well. Not all Fertilizer is capable of making a decent IED...
* caveat, Who was the Contractor that built that basement?!

Second, Since the Student Visa has expired, why has not one of the 3 Federal LEAs tasked with immigration not detained them and deported them?!

 

[Kutnupe14]

I am going to just address the Bold Red section...

First, 14 tons of Fertilizer is only enough for roughly 5 acres. Depending on the type of Fertilizer as well. Not all Fertilizer is capable of making a decent IED...
* caveat, Who was the Contractor that built that basement?!

Second, Since the Student Visa has expired, why has not one of the 3 Federal LEAs tasked with immigration not detained them and deported them?!

There are a handful immigration agents in the state (5 believe). And illegals get a hearing (to confirm that they are). Which is the better option, empowering another massive federal govt agency and taking more money out of our pockets or discouraging them from coming in the first place?

 

[Bill of Rights]

COME ON RYAN , IN YOUR OPION DO I STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT MYSELF WITH A GUN AND BE COVERED BY THE CONSTITUTION

Sure you do. You may protect yourself with a gun. You may not continue to be here, however, once your visa ran out. Therefore, you may exercise that God-given right.... somewhere else.

THANK YOU, MY INFIDEL BROTHER , ON MY WAY BACK , SHOULD I COME THROUGH CANADA OR MEXICO . OR MAYBE JUST FLY RIGHT INTO INDY

As long as you come back lawfully, I don't care where you come in.

The problem is that our country incentivizes gaming the system. I'm of the opinion that any may come or go, so long as I'm not required to pay anyone else's way without my consent. When what I earn goes to some cause I don't endorse, you betcha I have a right to either define to whom it goes or that it goes at all. Our exercise of that right is presently disallowed.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jeremy]

There are a handful immigration agents in the state (5 believe). And illegals get a hearing (to confirm that they are). Which is the better option, empowering another massive federal govt agency and taking more money out of our pockets or discouraging them from coming in the first place?

They have already been empowered and they ARE taxing us for their being, they might as well earn their pay....

 

[Gun Bunny]

I voted "no", but I am torn over my answer to the poll.

I work with two Swiss guys, one is one of my closest friend. They originally came to this country to help our new plant get on it's feet, and return home after two years. Now they are in the process of getting their green cards because they like it here, so much so that one even bought a house and the other will be starting collage part time.

I have taken them shooting on a number of accusations and I will tell you that they know how to shoot better than most Americans, both having served in the Swiss army (they had to turn in their full automatic battle rifles when they came here).

Knowing these to guys, I feel they they should be able to purchase and carry if they like, but others that come from Countries that are not so U.S. freindly would bother me I guess. hence "being torn". But I feel that it is the price of our freedoms. With freedom comes some risks that we have to expect.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Knowing these to guys, I feel they they should be able to purchase and carry if they like

They can carry here even if still HC citizens.

I will tell you that they know how to shoot better than most Americans

That is why an Englishman won the first Top Shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18bb-t7HRfM