Should Public Education be Abolished?

[Wild Deuce]

.... Also, can someone define "right" for me? In Indiana public schools are provided for in the Constitution.

A Constitution does not provide or create rights, it can only serve to protect them ... or violate them. No matter how much stuff is written into any Constitution, if something is provided to someone through coercion, taxation, theft, etc. of someone else, it is not a Right and being written into law does not change that fact.

The links I provided in my first post should help.

 

[E5RANGER375]

rebuilt or abolished?

On a side note, it is a proven fact that the less educated are typically more inclined to commit crimes. How is this solved, charity?

rebuilt after the current system is abolished. i believe public education is important but I also believe you shouldnt pay into it unless you use it. so people who have children in it pay for their own kids while they attend school. after they graduate then they stop paying. people need to pay for every service they use. cant pay? then you dont use whatever service it is you cant afford. i am for the privatization of about every public service there is. dont tax me to death for what i do not use. get govts hands out of my pockets.

 

[ljadayton]

Just a couple thoughts. Back home, there was NO tuition for public schools. Funding was all through taxes. I couldn't believe it the first time someone up here mentioned paying tuition for a public school. Or book fee's, for a kindergartner? The "books" were stapled paper.....
The system that's in place right now is broken. Anyone noticed the school supply list isn't for the students anymore? A box of ziplock bags? 3 boxes of kleenex, PER student? 2 bottles of hand sanitizer? PER student? I don't think so. 100 pencils? No way he's using that many in a year. WAY back when I was in school, MY supplies were MY supplies. Needed a pencil? My parents took care of that, for ME, not the other students whose parent's wouldn't/couldn't. Is that fair? Probably not. But life's not fair.
My son doesn't attend the public school he's zoned to. THAT school can't meet their minimum testing requirements so he gets a pass to go to a better school. I have to reapply for a transfer every year. OK, fine. But where do the tax dollars go? To the school he's not attending.
I worry that my son will continue the family tradition of dropping out and getting GEDs (like his father and uncle before him) because the public schools are dumbed down for the slower students and the smarter students are given nothing to keep themselves occupied. When a 3rd grader is bored at school, but reads at a 5th/6th grade level, something's right and something's wrong with that picture.

 

[88GT]

I'm surprised seeing you say this.

Well, to be clear, I don't want taxpayer subsidized education of any form. And the idea that the government is the governing authority over education makes me squirm. But, at least for Indiana, public education IS a constitutional authority/power.

But I really think that if they abolished compulsory attendance laws and limited the liability of taxpayers to funding just the bare basics, a good portion of the problems would starve due to lack of fodder.

That and eliminating public sector unions which would get rid of the teacher's union.

 

[revsaxon]

As a product of the public education system I can't say we should abolish it because it did well by me and im not that much of a hypocrite... but after seeing the things I saw durring my own time there, and heard about durring my sisters (she was 3 grades behind me)... my future kids WILL be going to private schools. If I have to sell every gun I own to afford it I will gladly, because public schools these days have become nothing more than daycares.

I know ive used this same rant in other threads, but they punish you these days for being smart. Hell, one of the schools I went to later went on to cut gifted classes because of parents complaints (their kids were to dumb to get in and it made them feel bad). Tear the system down to the ground, kick out the corrupt administrators, remove the outdated teaching systems/aids (I learned Asia's geography from a map that still had the USSR on it. In 2003), and build a new one in its place that actully teaches kids to think, not regurgitate facts anyone with a cellphone can find out in 30 seconds.

And for the love of god get rid of that no-children left behind crap. Some kids will be. Some kids deserve to be.

 

[E5RANGER375]

As a product of the public education system I can't say we should abolish it because it did well by me and im not that much of a hypocrite... but after seeing the things I saw durring my own time there, and heard about durring my sisters (she was 3 grades behind me)... my future kids WILL be going to private schools. If I have to sell every gun I own to afford it I will gladly, because public schools these days have become nothing more than daycares.

I know ive used this same rant in other threads, but they punish you these days for being smart. Hell, one of the schools I went to later went on to cut gifted classes because of parents complaints (their kids were to dumb to get in and it made them feel bad). Tear the system down to the ground, kick out the corrupt administrators, remove the outdated teaching systems/aids (I learned Asia's geography from a map that still had the USSR on it. In 2003), and build a new one in its place that actully teaches kids to think, not regurgitate facts anyone with a cellphone can find out in 30 seconds.

And for the love of god get rid of that no-children left behind crap. Some kids will be. Some kids deserve to be.

so damn true. some kids are just born stupid and there is no way anything will fit in their heads no matter how great of an education they get.

 

[sgreen3]

The public School system is one of the most corrupt organizations in Indiana from my personal experience as a former employee. Its good to have public schools, But politicians, administration have turned it into a business, get em in get em out. I could go on for hours of the down falls of the public school system. But bottom line is we need to teach our children, the public schools have failed to do this thats why almost every other advanced and some non-advanced country's surpass us in math and science. Thats a pretty hard pill to swallow when were supose to be the most advance country in the world. ---Sorry rant over. Anyway no we should not be made to pay for other peoples "rights". But sometimes we all have to make sacrafices for the sake of common good.

 

[Suprtek]

Education is not a right. As stated earlier, the pursuit of education IS. That does not mean others should be forced to pay for my education or the education of my children.

I have yet to find anywhere in the U.S. Constitution that justifies the existence of a "Department of education". Admittedly there are many "Departments of XXX" that have no constitutional basis either. That being said, IMO there should be no public education system of any kind. Its been proven over and over again that private schools do a better job at a much lower cost. I don't consider vouchers to be an acceptable alternative either. All vouchers do is force me to say "mother may I' to the government in an attempt to get permission to spend my own money. Also, any school that accepts money from the government in any form is subject to the rules the government creates for them.

I do believe there should remain laws in place requiring parents to provide a high school education for their children. Education is obviously a requirement to effectively function in today's society and children are not yet capable of making that choice for themselves.

This leaves the question of standards. If there is no government department of education, who determines the requirements for a high school diploma? I say let the market do it. Private companies that exist in the market can do a much better job determining proper standards than government ever could.

FTR, I have two children who's educations are nearly complete. Neither of them has ever attended a public school despite having to contribute through government extortion to public schools. I've never been a wealthy man (yet) and my family has always lived on a single income. There are many educational options available if you look for them that can provide much better than public schools without being too cost prohibitive. Its also about priorities. Somehow, if its important enough to us, most of the time we can find a way to pay for it.


There are always exceptions, but I really believe that any good parent that spent any meaningful amount of time in a public school today (especially in an urban environment) would not want their children exposed to the influences they provide.