Should state require training for LTCH?

[Timjoebillybob]

My sister, and her husband, live in Fl. and they both took the permit
class. The cost was over $100.00, and when they went to the range, they fired one round each !!!!! WHAT kind of "training" is that....
My sister said, that she would not renew her permit .....

For an even better example of FL training requirements. the IN DNR hunter safety course qualifies. And you can take it online. Never even have to see a firearm.

The ONLY positive thing to come out of mandatory training in Indiana would be that several more states would honor our license. Paying for a Utah license so I can carry in VA an WV where much of my family is, sucks on it's own level. I am pretty muched forced to have training anyway.

That being said, I would still vote against it in this state.........

If all your worried about is VA and WV you might want to check into the PA license, it's $26 for 5 years and no training requirements. If you live in a state that issues a license/permit you have to sent them a copy of it but that's it. If you live in a state that doesn't issue one, IL, WI, VT or D.C. you don't even have to have that. But the UT is still handy for OH.

 

[Praetorian13]

Yes., sure everyone has the right to carry but that doesn't mean that some idiot should carry and not know how to shoot. Hell, someone like that would get scared at night and end up shooting some innocent civilian in a parking lot, or the person behind them because the only gun they have ever shot in their life is a BB gun.

 

[Joe Williams]

Yes., sure everyone has the right to carry but that doesn't mean that some idiot should carry and not know how to shoot. Hell, someone like that would get scared at night and end up shooting some innocent civilian in a parking lot, or the person behind them because the only gun they have ever shot in their life is a BB gun.

Perhaps you should compare the statistics regarding how many innocent bystanders are shot by armed private citizens, as compared to how many are shot by trained police officers.

 

[Shay]

Mandatory training is more government control.

I do wish that more gun owners made professional training a priority. Most will never take their first class and they don't know what they don't know.

 

[Praetorian13]

Then give me 10 stories where a cop shoots an ''innocent'' civilian, who did not try attacking or going for an object on then etc. Or you can just reply with the "statistics" answer again

 

[Joe Williams]

Then give me 10 stories where a cop shoots an ''innocent'' civilian, who did not try attacking or going for an object on then etc. Or you can just reply with the "statistics" answer again

Plenty of them out there. That you continue to spout anti-gun silliness without bothering to look up the facts is disturbing.

 

[beararms1776]

I don't know how it is anybody's business to know what is inside my locked car.

Or in your house either.

 

[beararms1776]

Because employers were improperly exercising control over their employees private property. The law protects private property rights of employees.

 

[Praetorian13]

How can you even say that, I could tell you that bigfoot is real. How..well because of the statistics. Even though you can;t give me actual stories like I asked all you can come up with is "They are out there". So don't tell me I haven't looked anything up, when it is obvious that you have not either

 

[Whosyer]

Then give me 10 stories where a cop shoots an ''innocent'' civilian, who did not try attacking or going for an object on then etc. Or you can just reply with the "statistics" answer again

I can't give you any statistics, but I'm pretty sure that many a dead man has become armed "post mortem". On a side note, have you ever rolled your cursor across your lone red rep bar? Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

How can you even say that, I could tell you that bigfoot is real. How..well because of the statistics. Even though you can;t give me actual stories like I asked all you can come up with is "They are out there". So don't tell me I haven't looked anything up, when it is obvious that you have not either

Mods I'm not bashing LEO, Most of them are decent people and do their job as they should. But this person asked for some examples so I am providing them for him. If you would like this post deleted let me know or just do it yourself.

While I didn't feel like looking up 10, here are a few.
Caught on Video? Detroit Girl, 7, Shot By Cop - CBS News
Detroit cop aims at pit bull, shoots animal control officer in raid | detnews.com | The Detroit News
Dallas Officer Accidentally Shoots Rookie Officer | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth
Off-duty cop accidentally shoots self at Vernon Hills store - Chicago Breaking News
Kentucky cop accidentally shoots man; meant to draw Taser
Westhampton News - Suffolk County Police officer accidentally shoots self in foot at Westhampton range - 27east
Rookie Cop Shoots and Kills Innocent Man During Routine Traffic Stop - informationliberation
Ottawa Hills officer's trial begins, dash cam vid shown | 13abc.com
Here is one where not only did they shoot an innocent man in the back, they discussed how to cover it up.

And this one I love, it is funny.
YouTube - "Only Ones" who should have guns...

So how much did their training help?

 

[Indy317]

The employer still has control of their property.

This is so ridiculous. They don't have control. You are trying to put lipstick on a pig and you know it. If the employer tells an employee they are fired for bringing a firearm onto the property in their vehicle, they face government sanctions. You call that freedom. Just another reason why it gets harder and harder to care about the future of this country.

You know most employers couldn't just ban parking without causing serious issues to the business. However, if it were me, I would rather go out of business than take more government intrusion on my property and/or business operations. This is exactly why more and more folks don't want to start their own business, it just isn't worth it. You gotta let your folks bring guns onto the property, gotta make sure you hire a certain % of minorities, etc. etc.. I have heard the horror stories of a friend who owns a fast food place: People claiming the food made them ill, part-time high school kids get fired and actually fight for unemployment...the list goes on and on. No wonder this country is heading toward oblivion. Certain people are OK with government intrusion, so long it doesn't affect them in a negative way. Another reason why you could see a big push by business owners to demand training for a LTCH. Usually when a group, part or whole, stabs another group in the back, that group wants to return the favor. Hopefully this law gets a lawsuit filed against it, and courts uphold the right of a business owner to not only have complete control over their property, but also how they conduct their business operations.

One man's "freedom" is another man's fascism.

 

[Shay]

So how much did their training help?

Good training helps. Most firearms training for law enforcement is not good.

 

[jeremy]

Good training helps. Most firearms training for law enforcement is not good.

Is that because it is Mandatory Training?!

We have the same problem in the Military, if the training is Mandatory it is hard to get anything out of the Trainers and Trainees...
However if you can trick 'em into thinking it was their idea or an idea of a peer, totally different outcome usually...

 

[Joe Williams]

This is so ridiculous. They don't have control. You are trying to put lipstick on a pig and you know it. If the employer tells an employee they are fired for bringing a firearm onto the property in their vehicle, they face government sanctions. You call that freedom. Just another reason why it gets harder and harder to care about the future of this country.
snip.

The only thing ridiculous is that once again we see you attacking private property control of private citizens, and the concept of armed citizens, and trying to disguise it as something else. More than once you've expressed our contempt for armed citizens, and that is all you are doing here, using a falacious argument to try to create support for your baseless argument. Typical elitist, Brady Bunch crap. We see you pouring forth support for government and corporate control of citizens private property, while ranting on about how the freedom of our citizens is somehow a threat to the security of business and an infringement on those businesses. Yes, the ability to tell business and government that they may not exercise control over our property IS freedom, the problem is that you despise freedom. And, while you may not care about the future of our country if it includes freedom, I care very much about our country and making sure it actually remains free, not some twisted version of it where we are only allowed whatever few liberties those in charge feel like granting us.

You note that businesses would face negative consequences if they chose to exercise the absolute control over their property they have. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Facts are, they appear to have decided that they would rather provide parking even if they cannot seize control of private property. IOW, they aren't so concerned about what employees have in their cars that they feel they would be better off not having them on property. That is their choice, and it's one they are free to make. While you, more than once, have explained to us that armed citizens are incompetent boobs, using this as a grounds to attack our rights as you advocate is doomed to failure, and rightfully so. Merely the propaganda of those who spit on the concept that private American citizens are entitled to exercise the same rights as business, or that merely being a government shill doesn't make you special and allowed to run roughshod over those you work for.

It says much that you are so petulant over the mere concept of employees being able to retain control over their private property that you would rather ruin your business, but that is your choice. You are free to make it. Ultimate control.

 

[jsharmon7]

Should the GOVERNMENT require it? 100% no. Should a responsible adult who has made the decision to carry a deadly weapon get some sort of basic training or practice? 100% yes.

The "parking lot law" has been brought up and this is one that I'm on the fence about. From the perspective of a gun owner and one who recognizes that firearms ownership/carry is a right, I think it's a good thing. My issue is that the government has taken it upon themselves to tell a private business owner how to run their business. Why is it that nobody questions an individual's right to run their life as they see fit without government intrusion but it's okay when it happens to a business because it benefits us as gun owners? I think it's the same mentality I saw when I worked retail loss prevention years ago: it's no big deal because it's a big corporation. I just don't see the difference in the government telling you or I how to run our households versus the government telling a business owner how to run his business. I also don't agree that the company is controlling your private property either, nobody forces you to work there if you don't like the rules. If my company says I can't wear polka dot pants and I really, really want to wear them then I guess I should find somewhere to work that allows it. I wouldn't want them controlling my private property by telling me what to wear to work. I think the difference is that we're on a "firearms-related" message board and people are willing to bend their outlook on government intrusion when it helps them out or supports something that they support.

 

[Gabriel]

So how much did their training help?

A lot, actually. I wouldn't want to go on a raid with a bunch of untrained gun owners, that's for sure. If you put your average untrained firearm owner in the same high stress situations, the outcome would be drastically worse.

Comparing what police do daily to what aveage joe gun owner does daily doesn't hold water. Unfortunately mishaps happen to both.

 

[Joe Williams]

A lot, actually. I wouldn't want to go on a raid with a bunch of untrained gun owners, that's for sure. If you put your average untrained firearm owner in the same high stress situations, the outcome would be drastically worse.

Comparing what police do daily to what aveage joe gun owner does daily doesn't hold water. Unfortunately mishaps happen to both.

Well, the stats say that armed private citizens daily shoot more bad guys than cops do, and manage to shoot fewer innocents in the process.

 

[Praetorian13]

I am not here to tell everyone what they want to hear so I can get some ''rep'' points, I am here to state my opinion. Whether some agree with it or not.

 

[DaKruiser]

There shouldn't even be an LTCH.

+1this is the only answer!