Should We Help Georgia?

[MilitaryArms]

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Oh joy.

Aug. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Now that Russia has humiliated Georgia with a punishing military offensive, it may shift its attention to reining in pro-Western Ukraine, another American ally in the former Soviet Union.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's first order of business likely will be to try to thwart Ukraine's bid to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
``The Moscow authorities will use this opportunity to remind Ukraine of the damages of allying itself with NATO,'' said Geoffrey Smith at Renaissance Capital investment bank in Kiev.

 

[Bhriindan82]

Oh joy.

You said it. Wonder who's up next on Russia's list?

 

[Paul]

Well we are sending humanitarian aid to Georgia right now.

 

[flagtag]

You said it. Wonder who's up next on Russia's list?

ALL of those who left the USSR. (And maybe a few more?)
It's about conquest/power.

 

[ARININ]

Russia has publivy said that if the us or nato or the EU get involved they wil use Tactical nukes WW3


we need to stay the **** out of this one.




watch my prediction


within 2 weeks the oldest carrier in the fleet Roosevelt with a squad of french jets on board will get hit by Iran or so it seems.


FULL SCALE AIR WAR ON IRAN BY US FRANCE UK,

RUSSIA CHINA DONT LIKEY

WORLD WILL BE ON BRINK OF ww3 by end of the year GUARANTEED

AND ITS ALL BEEN PLANNED AND STAGED!

think im nuts??? take a few hours and you lazy ass and read the proof

infowars.com

peace be with us all:do2:

 

[Panama]

Russia has publivy said that if the us or nato or the EU get involved they wil use Tactical nukes WW3


we need to stay the **** out of this one.




watch my prediction


within 2 weeks the oldest carrier in the fleet Roosevelt with a squad of french jets on board will get hit by Iran or so it seems.


FULL SCALE AIR WAR ON IRAN BY US FRANCE UK,

RUSSIA CHINA DONT LIKEY

WORLD WILL BE ON BRINK OF ww3 by end of the year GUARANTEED

AND ITS ALL BEEN PLANNED AND STAGED!

think im nuts??? take a few hours and you lazy ass and read the proof

infowars.com

peace be with us all:do2:

If all this is true, then I don't need to go back to work this afternoon!
I think I'll just go get me some supplies.

ANYTHING can happen, however, I ain't bettin' on your scenario just yet!

 

[Paul]

Russia has publivy said that if the us or nato or the EU get involved they wil use Tactical nukes WW3


we need to stay the **** out of this one.




watch my prediction


within 2 weeks the oldest carrier in the fleet Roosevelt with a squad of french jets on board will get hit by Iran or so it seems.


FULL SCALE AIR WAR ON IRAN BY US FRANCE UK,

RUSSIA CHINA DONT LIKEY

WORLD WILL BE ON BRINK OF ww3 by end of the year GUARANTEED

AND ITS ALL BEEN PLANNED AND STAGED!

think im nuts??? take a few hours and you lazy ass and read the proof

infowars.com

peace be with us all:do2:

I hope your wrong but it wouldnt surprise me.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I don't think I would call "Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!" proof of anything. Alex is a complete lunatic, but he's entertaining.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I have to agree with Full Auto, something like Tac-nucs is something Russia would have made REALLY public (its their style, like beating a shoe on a table ). I get my info from reputable news sources, not blogs or opinion pages. Alex is entertaining though!!!

Incidentally, my engineer here at work showed me three pics that were on the news. There are two people that show up in the pics, usually different clothing but same people. Unfortunately, their situation of living also changes (living, dead) from pic to pic (as in posed pics). I will try to find them again. He is from Germany, and gets news from there. Believe me, Russia is being painted poorly by AMERICAN media, but not Europe.

The other thing that aggravates me a little is Bush telling Russia to stop random incursions onto soverign nations. I hate to say it Mr. Bush, but we are not ones to call the kettle black (Iraq). Russia obviously has a reason to be there as we have a reason to be in Iraq.

If it does restart the cold war, then at least the defense companies are making out

 

[Paul]

I have to agree with Full Auto, something like Tac-nucs is something Russia would have made REALLY public (its their style, like beating a shoe on a table ). I get my info from reputable news sources, not blogs or opinion pages. Alex is entertaining though!!!

Incidentally, my engineer here at work showed me three pics that were on the news. There are two people that show up in the pics, usually different clothing but same people. Unfortunately, their situation of living also changes (living, dead) from pic to pic (as in posed pics). I will try to find them again. He is from Germany, and gets news from there. Believe me, Russia is being painted poorly by AMERICAN media, but not Europe.

The other thing that aggravates me a little is Bush telling Russia to stop random incursions onto soverign nations. I hate to say it Mr. Bush, but we are not ones to call the kettle black (Iraq). Russia obviously has a reason to be there as we have a reason to be in Iraq.

If it does restart the cold war, then at least the defense companies are making out

How does Russia have a right to be there? Just wondering...

 

[MilitaryArms]

How does Russia have a right to be there? Just wondering...

I think it's all a matter of perspective.

Russia feels that they are protecting their interests by keeping NATO out of their region. They also feel that a large portion of the Georgian population which are Russian speaking do not want to join NATO. So they view themselves as liberators.

Also, Russia sees Georgia and Ukraine as separatist states and feel they should be part of Russia. There are some huge oil/financial interests there driving this feeling.

When the South announced their secession from the United States, the North responded in a similar manner. They forced a fight by resupplying Ft. Sumter which the South warned would be an act of war.

Regardless, it's an internal Russian thing and in their view they are justified. We see things differently because we want to support any nation who had a freely elected government and wishes to ally itself with us.

I do not think Russia is justified in their actions, but then I'm not Russian.

 

[Disposable Heart]

They believe that there is something there that threatens their sovereignty. It woud be a similar situation to us having Baja California, then going to fustigate Mexico due to their interests in the area. Its a hard thing to compare to US politics (if you think ours are bad, look at Russia's!!) however a trademark of Soviet and Russian statecraft has been the watchman of their backyard. They sent in "peacekeeping troops" however, their mission is still yet to be determined.

Russia is playing its traditional card of watching their yard and interfering with the actions of it's former holdings, but also playing the tradition of Russian statecraft of playing heavy handed. They dont play with pairs, they beat with 4 of a kind, but will only do so when they believe victory is assured (Afghanistan was a huge loss of not only face, material, but of political confidence).

We play a similar card nowadays that we have used alot due to being the last "superpower" and that is policeman of the world. We used terrorism as a reason to attack targets (justified or not, mostly justified and to good end, no sarcasm here). Terrorism threatens sovereignty, so therefore, its a matter of someone challenging American hegemoney. We play heavy handed, but not just militarily, but also with political and cultural power (both very very powerful in statecraft if your country has enough power in both to back it up). If a similar situation cropped up here in the Western Hemisphere, then we would act heavily, but in a different way, using politics instead of bombs (the explanation and definition of hegemony). Political scientists had issues describing hegemony until America became an industrial giant. Then the definition embodied itself (its a good thing folks! Something to seriously be proud of! It is the thing that our grandfathers fought for and our fathers worked hard for).

An over complicated answer, but an answer (thank god for a political science minor).

 

[Disposable Heart]

I think it's all a matter of perspective.

Russia feels that they are protecting their interests by keeping NATO out of their region. They also feel that a large portion of the Georgian population which are Russian speaking do not want to join NATO. So they view themselves as liberators.

Also, Russia sees Georgia and Ukraine as separatist states and feel they should be part of Russia. There are some huge oil/financial interests there driving this feeling.

When the South announced their secession from the United States, the North responded in a similar manner. They forced a fight by resupplying Ft. Sumter which the South warned would be an act of war.

Regardless, it's an internal Russian thing and in their view they are justified. We see things differently because we want to support any nation who had a freely elected government and wishes to ally itself with us.

I do not think Russia is justified in their actions, but then I'm not Russian.

Your first point is dead on with russian politics (I have had three quarters of cold war politics, its very interesting stuff). Russians believe that we (Nato) threaten their interests as we are scared of a Russian juggernaut leading countries against Europe (Warsaw Pact). The alliances are looser now, but still there, abeit weaker. Its unfounded fear (as people fearing the toothless UN) as NO country will give up sovereignty unless at the end of the bayonet, which happens to weaker countries. Weaker or third world countries become the pawns in the games bigger countries play. Simple as that. So what is a country to do? Be big, push littler countries around and show others they wont be pushed by smaller organizations or countries.

 

[flagtag]

How does Russia have a right to be there? Just wondering...

They don't!

 

[USMC_0311]

Yes, we should. With that said the real question is can we and how. There is no other country in the world besides China that could get Russia's attention better then the USA. If Russia's ultimate goal is regime change and we do not help whatever credability we have is lost and we soon could find the USA isolated from the rest of the world.
I am thinking submarines with cruise missle would be a good start.

 

[USMC_0311]

Or maybe just a company of MARINES

 

[MilitaryArms]

Or maybe just a company of MARINES

Oh Hell, you're thinking of a full scale invasion of Russia.

I was thinking a fire team would be enough to keep Russia out of Georgia.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Or maybe just a company of MARINES

Dear God! Russia would have to THEN use nukes just to get out of Georgia if the Marines arrive!!!

 

[flagtag]

Dear God! Russia would have to THEN use nukes just to get out of Georgia if the Marines arrive!!!

Or "pooper scoopers".

 

[USMC_0311]

Oh Hell, you're thinking of a full scale invasion of Russia.

I was thinking a fire team would be enough to keep Russia out of Georgia.

What was I thinking...lol