Situation question that I'm fuzzy on/ are you going to jail?

[Neo46121]

Ok, put yourself in this spot.

Say your out one evening, and realize your in need of fuel. You stop by your neighborhood gas station and fill up. You go inside and get a cup of coffee, soda, candybar, etc. However before you get to the counter to pay for your items someone walks in and sticks a weapon in the clerks face. He hasn't seen you yet and is demanding the money in the till.

Now for the question: let's say you draw your CC'd pistol and protect the clerk by "taking care of business". The clerk and yourself are unharmed but there is now a deceased BG on the floor. The clerk calls the local PD and an LEO is on scene in minutes. Both the clerks story and your own are the same, there was a robbery in progress and you dropped the BG in his tracks.

Are you going to jail? Would especially like to hear from an LEO or 2

thanks or reading an hopefully I get the information I'm looking for

 

[bigiron]

i'm a few years removed from service but i'll give you my two cents. no, you shouldn't be going to jail. forcable felony. at any point in time this could go south and you do not have to wait for the BG to shoot the clerk before you defend him or yourself. i wouldn't hesitate although i don't want to take a life as much as the next guy. its obviously situational and we would all act differently. as for your question, i'm not a lawyer or prosecutor but i would say your in the clear and during my service i wouldn't have blinked an eye and would have given you a stiff hand-shake and a thank you.

 

[dross]

When a man threatens the life of another person unrighteously, I hope the question I'm willing to ask myself is not whether I'll go to jail, but whether I'll fulfill my moral responsibility to end the risk to my fellow citizen's life. I hope I will, if that dark day ever comes. You're willing to risk your life, are you willing to risk prison? I hope I never have to answer the question, but if I must, I pray my answer is a hearty, "Yes Sir!"

 

[Bill of Rights]

Ok, put yourself in this spot.

Say your out one evening, and realize your in need of fuel. You stop by your neighborhood gas station and fill up. You go inside and get a cup of coffee, soda, candybar, etc. However before you get to the counter to pay for your items someone walks in and sticks a weapon in the clerks face. He hasn't seen you yet and is demanding the money in the till.

Now for the question: let's say you draw your CC'd pistol and protect the clerk by "taking care of business". The clerk and yourself are unharmed but there is now a deceased BG on the floor. The clerk calls the local PD and an LEO is on scene in minutes. Both the clerks story and your own are the same, there was a robbery in progress and you dropped the BG in his tracks.

Are you going to jail? Would especially like to hear from an LEO or 2

thanks or reading an hopefully I get the information I'm looking for

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).

If it happened as you described, it's the textbook reading of the law (IC 35-41-3-2a AND IC 35-41-3-2c). You're in the clear.

Disclaimer: IANAL, TINLA

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Lilsoup]

When a man threatens the life of another person unrighteously, I hope the question I'm willing to ask myself is not whether I'll go to jail, but whether I'll fulfill my moral responsibility to end the risk to my fellow citizen's life. I hope I will, if that dark day ever comes. You're willing to risk your life, are you willing to risk prison? I hope I never have to answer the question, but if I must, I pray my answer is a hearty, "Yes Sir!"

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Neo46121]

That's what I thought but I did want a little clarification.

 

[1032JBT]

As a current LEO I will chime in and say no I dont think you should go to jail. I will never say 100% no because in a SD shooting there are a lot of variables that will go into the investigation and if the situation went down as you explained I would fight ANY mumblings about taking you to jail. I would also refuse, if it was so decided to take you there, to be the one taking you and/or doing an of the aperwork that put you there.


If the situation happened as you described....the most I could see happening is you being taken to the PD for interviews with detectives, your gun being taken as evidence in the case, and the case going to the Prosecutors Office/Grand Jury for a hopeful result of Justifiable Homicide.


That is only my opinion though and I"m sure as hell no lawyer, so take it for what you want.

 

[Eddie]

Bill is right

Bill is correct legally, but I would hope that most of us would feel the way that Dross does. There is a legal and then there is a moral obligation. If another human's life is in danger then I wouldn't hesitate to try and help them.

 

[Lex Concord]

If it happened as you described, it's the textbook reading of the law (IC 35-41-3-2a AND IC 35-41-3-2c). You're in the clear.

Disclaimer: IANAL, TINLA

Blessings,
Bill

Thanks for the quick IC quote.

For those of you wondering about "curtilage" (as I was)...

From Wikipedia:

In law, curtilage is the enclosed area of land around a dwelling.[1] It is distinct from the dwelling by virtue of lacking a roof, but distinct from the area outside the enclosure in that it is enclosed within a wall or barrier of some sort.
It is typically treated as being legally coupled with the dwelling it surrounds despite the fact that it might commonly be considered "outdoors".
This distinction is important under US law for cases dealing with burglary and with self defense under the Castle Doctrine. Under Florida law, burglary encompasses the English common-law definition and adds (among other things) curtilage to the protected area of the dwelling into which intrusion is prohibited. Similarly, a homeowner does not have to retreat within the curtilage under Florida's Castle Doctrine.
The curtilage (like the home) provides a reasonable expectation of privacy and hence (in the US) is protected from unreasonable search and seizure under the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. See Open fields doctrine for how courts distinguish curtilage and "open fields", with the latter not providing privacy.
It may also be relevant in considering the extent of house arrest.

 

[Neo46121]

Bill is correct legally, but I would hope that most of us would feel the way that Dross does. There is a legal and then there is a moral obligation. If another human's life is in danger then I wouldn't hesitate to try and help them.

Exactly why I posted this for clarification. My first instinct is to protect the innocent person by any means necessary. It's (generally) human nature to protect others. It's almost a primal one.


Also thank you to the LEOs for the input. I was really hoping to hear from someone with a badge on this subject matter as they would be the ones with the final say (atleast the "am I going to jail" aspect) of it.

 

[pudly]

I was really hoping to hear from someone with a badge on this subject matter as they would be the ones with the final say (atleast the "am I going to jail" aspect) of it.

Actually, they don't really get the final say. The incident will be written up and a prosecutor will review it. It will be up to the prosecutor to decide if it should go on to a grand jury and further prosecution. Of course, then there is the entire civil suit angle because "Johnny was such a good boy" and we want money...

Your going to jail that night is only the first of multiple risks that you take by intervening. Not to scare you off from protecting a life, but you should be aware.

 

[haldir]

Of course, then there is the entire civil suit angle because "Johnny was such a good boy" and we want money...

Probably didn't help that you cut his ears off and put them on the chain around your neck with a couple others already there.

 

[pudly]

Probably didn't help that you cut his ears off and put them on the chain around your neck with a couple others already there.

You say it as if there is something wrong with that.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Probably didn't help that you cut his ears off and put them on the chain around your neck with a couple others already there.

You say it as if there is something wrong with that.

There is.

Wrong part, kept in the wrong place.

I leave it to your imagination which part(s) should be cut off and what should be done with it/them.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Eagle_Al]

in the clear

I also believe in most areas you would be in the clear. I have often thought of this scenario. If it happens to me I believe I will take the shot on the bad guy. Who knows how many he will kill, including me if iam spotted. The fact that he pulled a gun with premeditated violant intentions to potentially kill someone means all bets are off. He started this thing, not us. Of he didn't want shot, he shouldn't have pulled a weapon to threaten everyones lives just for a little monetary gain.

 

[Libertarian01]

As Bill was kind enough to post the law I believe that under the LAW you should not be arrested or go to jail. If you do you should not be convicted.

The operative words are "believe" and "should".

That is why you should be most respectful and appreciative of the law enforcement officers who arrive on the scene but respectfully decline to make any statements without an attorney present or at least speaking to a criminal law attorney first!!!

You could get a law enforcement officer in charge who doesn't like us puny, ignorant citizens doing a job he/she could have done better. He/she might decide to send a message.

Or, you could get a prosecuting attorney who decides that he/she does not appreciate "vigilante" justice happening in the streets, so he/she might want to put you on trial and send a message.

EITHER WAY, it will not hurt you to wait a few hours to go down to a police station and make a statement with a criminal law attorney present. I emphasize criminal law attorney because the guy who reviewed your civil stuff won't be as knowledgeable about the criminal side.

And let us not forget, even though the LE may agree with you and do nothing and the PA may agree with you and do nothing you are NOT immune from civil action by the dead bad guys family. Which sucks of course, but that is how many people are happy OJ got a little sting in the end. The sword cuts both ways.

Best of luck to any out there in that situation.

Doug

 

[LCSOSgt11]

I would categorically state that you would not go to jail. However, you will be interviewed, and a statement secured.

In my opinion, if an armed robber gets snuffed, them's the breaks. No one forced him (or her) to shove a gun in someone's face because they needed dope or some other such silly thing. For an armed robber, getting whacked is an occupational hazard.

Being worried about a prosecutor is worrying about something you have no control over. If the prosecutor was smart, he (or she) would respond to the scene and actually see what happened. The facts will carry the day.

 

[infidel]

Hopefully you didn't give the PD a story. Hopefully you called your lawyer and did as instructed instead.

 

[J4Me]

I hope I'm never in that situation.

 

[henktermaat]

This is an interesting read. I would not intervene because of the possible legal ramifications. I would not pull my trigger unless me or my own family were in mortal danger. Selfish? probably.

People get sued for trying to help out car accident victims, for crying out loud. It's a nutty world.