Snacks Crossing Elementary seriously drops the ball

[Indy317]

...not following their own procedure for calling the parents when there was a problem with their child.

The daycare does have a policy of contacting the parents when there is a problem. It's right there in the contract that both of us (daycare and me) signed. Are you going to say that having a child not present for pickup doesn't count as a problem? To the best of my knowledge there was no requirement stated or implied that I had to call them to make sure they did what they had agreed to do.

If it is written in the contract, or made known verbally, that a child that won't be at daycare will be known to the facility via a phone call from a guardian, then yea, I could see not picking up the kid, absent a phone call, would be a problem. If this was a daycare with only three kids, and the babysitter knows you or your wife would have called saying "she won't be there," then yea, I would see that as a problem. I guess it depends on what kind of facility you have here that you call a daycare. If it is full of kids, and there is no requirement for parents to call to say "So and so is sick, so and so has an appointment, etc" and "he/she won't be there" then I can't see an issue. If the kid is not there, and there is no requirement for parents to call, I would assume the child is with his or her parents, or something.

...to the day care, I spoke to the administrator, I said, "when Athena was missing from pickup you should have called me right away." She said, "You're right." If that counts as overreaction then I don't know what to say.

If she would have said "You're wrong." would you still be giving her money or her company money? She has a vested interest in saying "You're right." As always, follow the money. You are the one to her, a portion of which goes into her pocket. Do you think she would have been honest with you if she really thought it wasn't their fault? Not if she wanted to continue to receive a portion of your money. Customer service 101: If you want to keep on receiving the customer's money, do what you can to keep the customer happy. I know, I know, your not blaming them, but your just saying they "fell short," whatever that means if it is not a blame for wrongdoing, making a mistake, whatever.

 

[dburkhead]

Actually, that Wednesday. My parents split up...it wasn't a planned thing. My mom basically ran away from home. When I wanted to be with her instead, I went. At that time, she wasn't really in a "take care of school stuff" mode, so if I wanted to go, it was on me. I went to my dean and my guidance counselor and followed their instructions what to do. It wasn't within walking distance and I had to give up my car. So yes, I had to find the closest correct bus & route, which happened to be almost at my new front door. Book fees from the first school were refunded in part to my father. Book fees for the other school were billed to my mom on a deferment plan. I got a job and paid for them. I got that job on the next weekend, so I guess if you count that, it all took 11 or 12 days total, but no unexcused absences to speak of and no lapses in studies other than being at different points in similar courses.

Ah, so let me guess. Public school at both locations right? The public school was the one in whose district you would be living at the new location, right? Your description wasn't entirely clear but it sounds like you used public transportation to get to school, which you were old enough to do on your own (after all, you had a car so clearly you were at least in your teens)? And you were old enough that finding day care to cover the period between school letting out and parent getting off work was not an issue, right?

And all this makes your situation just so comparable to the situation at hand here, right?

 

[dburkhead]

David,

First off, I'm very glad no lasting harm other than a scare came to your Athena and I'm impressed at your restraint.

One point here, though, is that not all church-owned schools require membership... I went to two different Episcopal schools for 2nd and 3rd, then again in 9th and 10th grades, both times with the full understanding that I was not a member of their church or their religion. I even went to Jewish religious school on Sunday (what can I say? That's when they had it) instead of going to church.

Don't dismiss the idea on those grounds if you're otherwise considering it. You don't have to be a hypocrite to give your daughter an other-than-government-school education.

Blessings,
Bill

I know that there's no membership requirement to attend most (of which I am aware) religious supported private schools, but every one I've looked at had a pretty serious tuition difference between members and non-members. That makes a pretty big difference in what one can and cannot afford. I don't have a problem in principle with religious schools. In fact, all of the daycares I have used have been daycare ministries.

It's the affordability issue I was addressing. To get that "affordability" I would have to cynically sit down and pretend to believe in their particular religion and I think setting that kind of example for Athena would do far more harm than even public schools.

 

[hornadylnl]

It's the affordability issue I was addressing.

schools.

Maybe you haven't had time to address my last post but I asked for clarification on the $30k in damage you mentioned earlier.

 

[Benny]

Maybe you haven't had time to address my last post but I asked for clarification on the $30k in damage you mentioned earlier.

She went to the ER...I'd venture to guess that wasn't a free visit, but what do I know?

 

[hornadylnl]

She went to the ER...I'd venture to guess that wasn't a free visit, but what do I know?

The reason I asked for clarification on that is I'm trying to figure out what kind of vehicle they have. Before I continue on with my point, I'd like to know for sure instead of going forward on an assumption.

I'm not trying to attack dburkheads charactor or choices here. Just challenging the assertion that other options are not affordable.

 

[dburkhead]

Unfortunately, yes, this is precisely the kind and level of care we should expect from public schools.

The question was rhetorical.

It may be what we can expect, but it's not what we should demand.

Having no direct relationship with the "consumer", they have almost no incentive, aside from individual conscience or the miracle of a termination of one of this protected class, to ensure such mistakes do not happen.

Actually, I got a very apologetic call from the school principle this evening. You see, I'm the calm one or, as I think I put it uptopic, my anger burns cold whereas my wife's burns very hot indeed. Her instinctive reaction was to call the police and CPS and she acted on that instinct. Now CPS said that because my daughter was only untended for a little bit (maybe 10 minutes or so before the neighbor noticed her) they weren't going to "assign" the case, they did send an email to the school telling them that an incident had been reported. Now, we have the accusations flying back and forth within the school: teacher says she didn't get the notice, principal says they have confirmation that the teacher did get the notice. In the end, I don't care whose at fault excepting insofar as it relates to corrective action. I do care that steps are taken so that it doesn't happen again.

The schools only think that they are disconnected. And they think that because all too many parents let them get away with it. It's quite possible to hold the school's feet to the fire While no tactic is 100%, publicity and threats of legal action of various stripes have influenced schools for the better in the past.

Reason 5,419 to consider homeschooling. It is worth the sacrifices.

"Worth" is a matter for the individual to determine. I really couldn't care less about the "education" provided at least in the early grades. For example my daughter is starting out first grade with what most kids, even in "good" schools finish with (at this level one or two hours a day combined with careful selection of "learning games" to reinforce what I've been teaching covers the need). I'm able to cover the educational shortcomings quite well, thank you. It's the socialization aspects, the dealing with others, learning to accept authority (an important step even for leaders--a story goes* that George Washington's mother was once asked how she raised him to make him such a great leader. Her answer was "first I taught him to obey."), etc.

*My source for that was the 1948 "Handbook for Boys"--a gift from my stepfather, one of the few good things I ever got from him.

So, despite the criticisms I have received here (thanks folks for reminding me of what I've been missing since I've been away), the steps I have taken have been getting action. In the daycare's case a mistake was made, owned up to, and agreement reached to prevent repetition. In the case of the school we had a moebus strip of finger pointing, but no real acceptance of responsibility until my wife's action (stronger than anything I had planned . . . yet) finally showed them that we were serious and we got acceptance of responsibility and agreement to take action to prevent it from happening again.

Ball is now in my court to make sure that the agreements are actually followed up on. First step is that I have been calling the daycare every day since the incident to make sure that Athena was picked up and taken to daycare. Another step is that I will be, with my daughter, at the next school board meeting. And things will continue as I keep a very sharp eye on what the school is doing.

 

[dburkhead]

If it is written in the contract, or made known verbally, that a child that won't be at daycare will be known to the facility via a phone call from a guardian, then yea, I could see not picking up the kid, absent a phone call, would be a problem. If this was a daycare with only three kids, and the babysitter knows you or your wife would have called saying "she won't be there," then yea, I would see that as a problem. I guess it depends on what kind of facility you have here that you call a daycare. If it is full of kids, and there is no requirement for parents to call to say "So and so is sick, so and so has an appointment, etc" and "he/she won't be there" then I can't see an issue. If the kid is not there, and there is no requirement for parents to call, I would assume the child is with his or her parents, or something.

All I can say is I'm glad you don't run a daycare. Every single time my daughter hasn't been in daycare when she normally would have been if I didn't call them to let them know (sometimes she wasn't there because I was just as sick as she was and both of us were sleeping in) they called me to make sure things were okay.

Maybe I've just been lucky in my choice of daycares, but that's been my experience.

If she would have said "You're wrong." would you still be giving her money or her company money? She has a vested interest in saying "You're right." As always, follow the money. You are the one to her, a portion of which goes into her pocket. Do you think she would have been honest with you if she really thought it wasn't their fault? Not if she wanted to continue to receive a portion of your money. Customer service 101: If you want to keep on receiving the customer's money, do what you can to keep the customer happy. I know, I know, your not blaming them, but your just saying they "fell short," whatever that means if it is not a blame for wrongdoing, making a mistake, whatever.

I guess you either have not much confidence in being able to read things like posture and voice tone or you credit the administrator with being qutie a good actress. Funny how you keep making all these assumptions about situations when you weren't there.

And funny how you continue to lump all mistakes into the same category. Not all mistakes are blameworthy.

And it's funny how you keep harping on that despite repeated corrections in what I actually meant by it. While I will admit that you could have read the original intent as casting blame all around, after a while of having pointed out to you that that wasn't my intent the excuse stops working.

But thank you for reminding me of what I've been missing while I've been away.

 

[dburkhead]

She went to the ER...I'd venture to guess that wasn't a free visit, but what do I know?

Thanks for quoting that. It wasn't that I didn't have time to respond.

About half of the cost was repair of the vehicle (in fact, I'm surprised they didn't total it). Then there was the ER, ultrasounds and other checks on the health of the baby (remember, she was seven months pregnant when this happened), missed work for both me and my wife, time spent arguing the case which wouldn't have been necessary if they'd simply accepted responsibility from the start, lawyer fees which wouldn't have been necessary if they had just accepted responsibility from the start, small things like the reduction in resale value of the vehicle (yes, major accidents do make a difference), and other things I would have not bothered with if they had simply accepted responsibility from the start. But when they decided to make it a fight, then my wife and I decided "fine, you want a fight, We'll give you a fight."

If somebody is willing to be reasonable, I can be reasonable. If somebody wants to be unreasonable, they'll find that I can play that game too.

 

[Brandon]

did your kid ever tell anyone that she was supposed to go to daycare instead of get on the bus? *just asking, dont take it the wrong way*

our bus policy as i stated before... kindergarten is the only one we cant leave behind (ok preschool, but i dont drive for them so im leaving that out of what i say)
if we dont see anyone. if they are first grade or higher and the kid doesnt tell us or someone that they have no way to get inside of their house, we assume they will be inside and drive on.

also i have to agree with who ever posted the comments about kids being picked up dropped off at every different place every day. this is so TRUE. i have 107 kids assigned to my 2 routes. if one doesnt ride in the afternoon i dont ask questions unless someone told me that they were supposed to be.its nearly impossible to know whos going where and is actually supposed to be going where. there is after school activities, appointments, detentions, mom and dad or grandparent surprise pickups...

only other things i can say.
the schools have a team of lawyers as well, so expect a battle if you decide to go that route. not saying im for or against or what i would do in your situating... im not a parent so i cant say what i would or wouldnt do.

last comment:
i wish more parents of the kids i have on my bus were just 25% involved with their kids lives or questioned/complained/made someone(s) aware of a situation as you have/do/did.

i seriously question some of the parents of the kids i have (i wont go there though)

 

[hornadylnl]

My assumption was that the $30k in damage was $30k in damages to a $30k+ vehicle. If so, that is a lot of money that could be used to better insure the safety of one's child.

 

[dburkhead]

did your kid ever tell anyone that she was supposed to go to daycare instead of get on the bus? *just asking, dont take it the wrong way*

Don't sweat it. You haven't been as confrontational as some here have been so I have no reason to take that the wrong way.

I don't know if she told anybody. I suspect that at school they said "stand here" and "get on that bus" and she, not knowing any better, simply did as she was told.

She's a good girl. A bit over-energetic at times but that's normal. A bit "willful" at times, but what healthy six year old isn't. This isn't just my opinion but is echoed by the reports she gets from her daycares. So I expect she just did what she was told.

And, frankly, I wouldn't expect what she said to be given much, if any, weight. If what she said (kids get confused even when they are not being deliberately dishonest) disagreed with what I said then I would expect the school to follow my instructions, not hers.

our bus policy as i stated before... kindergarten is the only one we cant leave behind (ok preschool, but i dont drive for them so im leaving that out of what i say)
if we dont see anyone. if they are first grade or higher and the kid doesnt tell us or someone that they have no way to get inside of their house, we assume they will be inside and drive on.

However what you said was in agreement with what I got in the "registration packet" at least for the first week of school. There were a whole raft of "special procedures" for first and second graders for at least the first week of class, things like parents are to tell the driver that the kids are K-1, the K-1 kids will be let off the bus first (presumably so the kids can be taken to their classes the first few days until they learn where they are supposed to be), that sort of thing. The return home bit was also part of that.

also i have to agree with who ever posted the comments about kids being picked up dropped off at every different place every day. this is so TRUE. i have 107 kids assigned to my 2 routes. if one doesnt ride in the afternoon i dont ask questions unless someone told me that they were supposed to be.its nearly impossible to know whos going where and is actually supposed to be going where. there is after school activities, appointments, detentions, mom and dad or grandparent surprise pickups...

I absolutely do not blame the bus driver who was given a child and told "take her home." And it's entirely possible that the school's policy (at least as reported in the paperwork) is different from the policy of the transportation folk. Believe me, I've seen that kind of snafu often enough.

BTW, I talked to the driver this morning. She was apparently not aware that there was a problem. First I asked if she drove the same route in the afternoon which she confirmed that she was. I asked her to keep an eye out and that Athena is not supposed to ride the bus home so that if someone puts Athena on the bus a mistake has been made. She agreed to do so. Now maybe there's too many kids to keep track of all of them but having at least one other person aware of the situation and on the lookout can't hurt.

Oh, and despite the assumptions about me that some have made here, I was not in the least angry and kept this conversation calm and non-confrontational.

only other things i can say.
the schools have a team of lawyers as well, so expect a battle if you decide to go that route. not saying im for or against or what i would do in your situating... im not a parent so i cant say what i would or wouldnt do.

That the fight might be difficult, the opponent strong and well armed, does not mean that the fight is not worth fighting. At least some folk have won so it's not entirely hopeless.

And, fortunately, it's also looking like it's not necessary either.

last comment:
i wish more parents of the kids i have on my bus were just 25% involved with their kids lives or questioned/complained/made someone(s) aware of a situation as you have/do/did.

Thank you. Watching out for one's kids, and keeping a close eye on those to whom one consigns them for care, instruction, etc. just strikes me as being part of the "job" as a parent. I can't imagine not doing it. Yes, I am aware that there are people who don't, but I just can't understand it.

i seriously question some of the parents of the kids i have (i wont go there though)

People make jokes that some people should not be "allowed" to be parents, but, frankly, that scares me even more. Who decides? Who gives or withholds "permission"?

 

[JetGirl]

Ah, so let me guess. Public school at both locations right? The public school was the one in whose district you would be living at the new location, right? Your description wasn't entirely clear but it sounds like you used public transportation to get to school, which you were old enough to do on your own (after all, you had a car so clearly you were at least in your teens)? And you were old enough that finding day care to cover the period between school letting out and parent getting off work was not an issue, right?

And all this makes your situation just so comparable to the situation at hand here, right?

I wasn't comparing my situation with yours/your kid's. You asked for clarification regarding time lines and transportation. My only original point was that it does NOT take a lengthy amount of time to move transcripts and other info from one school to another to transfer. If you didn't want to hear all inconsequential details, you shouldn't have asked.

 

[Brandon]

BTW, I talked to the driver this morning. She was apparently not aware that there was a problem. First I asked if she drove the same route in the afternoon which she confirmed that she was. I asked her to keep an eye out and that Athena is not supposed to ride the bus home so that if someone puts Athena on the bus a mistake has been made. She agreed to do so. Now maybe there's too many kids to keep track of all of them but having at least one other person aware of the situation and on the lookout can't hurt.

Oh, and despite the assumptions about me that some have made here, I was not in the least angry and kept this conversation calm and non-confrontational.



That the fight might be difficult, the opponent strong and well armed, does not mean that the fight is not worth fighting. At least some folk have won so it's not entirely hopeless.

And, fortunately, it's also looking like it's not necessary either.


part one: its been my experience that we are either the very first to know of a situation... or the very last to know of a situation.

Ive had several parents come to my bus... i welcome it. i almost welcome the confrontational as well but thats 50/50 depending on the situation.

hearing what ever needs to be heard/said from the parent to the driver first hand always helps one party or the other in any given situation. otherwise hearing it from who ever takes a call at the desk then passes it to who ever comes out to the bus driver and shortens the message.. and then its all f'ed up.

part 2: i couldnt agree more... just because its difficult doesnt mean its not worth it... i was just stating the obvious that while schools are trying to cut spending, they tend to have to find ways to cover their behinds


like i said before, i wish more parents cared just a fraction of a % of what you do. it could only help everyone involved. sadly i dont think that is going to happen anytime soon.

keep on truckin your way. i think its working just fine.

 

[dburkhead]

I wasn't comparing my situation with yours/your kid's. You asked for clarification regarding time lines and transportation. My only original point was that it does NOT take a lengthy amount of time to move transcripts and other info from one school to another to transfer. If you didn't want to hear all inconsequential details, you shouldn't have asked.

When I said "it doesn't happen in an instant" I was speaking in the context of my case with my daughter. You replied "wrong" and cited your case.

I therefore pointed out that your case is nowhere comparable to mine and, therefore, is non-responsive to my original assertion. All of the things that make it not possible to do in an instant didn't apply to you.

Consider the following situation.

Me: "It took me so long to get home from work because I can't drive faster than the sound barrier.
Andy Green: "Wrong, I drove 773 MPH in 1997."
Me: "Um, I don't have the ThrustSSC and I65 and I70 are not Black Rock Desert."
Andy Green: "Well I wasn't talking about your situation."
Me: "..."

Seriously, if your "wrong" wasn't addressed at my situation, what I was talking about, then one wonders what was the point?

 

[JetGirl]

You said switching schools takes time, implying that it's a lengthy process. I relayed my own experience stating that it can happen quickly (from Friday to Monday). That was all. You asked for the rest.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...y_seriously_drops_the_ball-2.html#post1227035

 

[dburkhead]

You said switching schools takes time, implying that it's a lengthy process. I relayed my own experience stating that it can happen quickly (from Friday to Monday). That was all. You asked for the rest.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...y_seriously_drops_the_ball-2.html#post1227035

And I made that statement in the context of my own situation in response to people telling me to take her out of the current school and put her elsewhere.

Look at the full paragraph from which you quoted one line:

In any case, pulling my daughter out of her school is not something that can be done today. Last time I checked, school attendance was mandatory for children of her age. Switching schools is something that takes time. Arranging for someone to be home for homeschooling takes time. Were I to choose either option Athena would still have to go back to the same school in the interim. That means I still have to deal with the problem at the current school. So either I deal with the problem at the current school--in which case it is dealt with and no longer drives any immediate need to change--or I don't deal with it at the current school--in which case she'd still be at serious risk until I could change her educational arrangements. So, better to deal with it now

"Pulling my daughter out of her school is not something that can be done today." "So either I deal with the problem at the current school...." I am clearly talking about my daughter and my situation. You responded to a single sentence out of context and in a manner such that it looked like a response to what I was saying.

A more accurate statement would have been "While it's not really relevant to your situation, changing schools can be done quickly if the conditions are right."

I'm surprised you didn't also go after the "Arranging for someone to be home for homeschooling takes time" since there are people who have just quit their jobs and walked off without any advance preparation. It would be utterly irresponsible and absolutely the wrong thing to do for my situation but some people have done it. And maybe it would be the right thing to do for some people in some situations but it would not be responsive to what I was saying.

 

[JetGirl]

Dude, I understand your frustration and wont to lash out...but seriously, it wasn't all that.

 

[VaGriller]

Snacks Crossing Elementary School made a serious, potentially dangerous error in the care of my 6 year old daughter. I'm writing this now, after I've calmed down a bit.

I would be absolutely livid if this happened. Your temper is obviously on a longer delay then mine is. I do not agree with a "lawsuit" though. There are no damages or real loss.

I too have been having problems since day one. (Now not at all as bad as yours and I would have flipped a wig if that happened to my son). This is my son's first year and it has been total chaos with his teacher. He started this Tuesday and she was hired that Monday. Orientation was a joke because she had no idea on the school policies. Almost every question we would ask, she would say she'd have to get back with us. Then she had all these "extra" expenses that she is "making" each parent pay for. I've already dropped about $300 in clothes, books, materials, and now her "extra" expenses total to about $150, due in a week. And that just takes us to December.

First day of school she shows up 20 minutes late for class. Which I understand first day but I'd expect some type of apology and or explanation. Nope, walks in and says "kids take a seat, parents I need you all to leave"

Its not your teachers fault she was just hired the day before the first day of school. Administrators spend all summer putting procedures in place that may or may not work which is found out the first week of school. What I quoted in bold: Not one parent in the room said anything? I would love to see what that teachers wants thats an extra 150 on top of the 300 you've already spent.

ow. You need to remind her that she works for you.

Actually she doesn't work for him. He doesn't sign her paycheck, or administrate her benefits plan.

Fortune has nothing to do with it. These were our decisions and there was no luck involved.Wow, you must not have read my post very well. IT IS NOT WORKING OUT FOR US, yet, we continue. We live in what some people would call poverty. 7 children, small house, one vehicle, and only foods of necessity. That's not working out, that's 'just getting by'. Yet, we do it anyway.

Our rewards are not found in the measurable, physical world.

While you may not have the newest or nicest (insert material item here), What you are doing will go a long way in how your children view life, and their children view life. I would say your children are VERY fortunate to have such loving parents.

General

I used to believe that being a teacher was a respected & rewarding career. I can't believe anybody wants to be one anymore.

 

[eatsnopaste]

It's terrible that happened but look at it this way. Would you want the job of managing hundreds if not thousands of kids bus schedules, daycare schedules, etc? I sure wouldn't. In a sense, we've abdicated the responsibility of the logistics of our childrens activities to the schools.

What would parents do without public schools? They'd then have to assume all of that responsibility for themselves.

Glad your daughter is ok.

OMG! you mean take them to school themselves, or home school them or pay someone to do that for them? How dare you tell them they would have to take personal responsibility for the safety and up bringing of their children! Ok, I am glad that all ended safely and yes it could have been a tragedy and everyone involved need the finger pointed at them....but....but castigating public schools because they don't operate perfectly on the first day when hundreds if not thousands of parents have "notes" and "special needs" for their children is a bit harsh. I'm not saying the OP wasn't warranted to say and do what he did, just saying sometimes a little slack needs to be given.