so today

[erinu4]

Went to my sister's house for Christmas and it was a good time, and well my boyfriend who carries was carrying a gun on him today, no one can really see it cause he had it covered up, and well when he got up my sister saw it this was 4 hrs we where there, and told her HUSBAND to take all the kids in the backroom, so he did that. My mom told me to tell him to take the gun to the car and my boyfriend said NO b/c hes not going to leave it since it cannot be locked up. So couple minutes later we left. So now she said that she doesn't want him around her kids any more because hes being disrespectful, by carrying a gun on him around the kids. So does that mean shes not coming here for anything any more, b/c I know i'm not stopping nor he will stop going to family things.. I am going to post was she was saying on facebook, she also blocked me on there. Here is some of the things she said..

MY SISTER:About the gun. I don't care if you both own guns. I don't care if you have them at your house or in your car. I have expressed to Erin that I do not want them around my kids. And Ashlie has said that she doesn't want them around my boyfriends girl kid. Michael hes on the thread, I am sorry if Erin did not tell you that we didn't want you carrying a gun around our kids. Our reasons are very clear. I am related to 5 cops and I am friends with many more. None of them have worked a situation where a person has defended themselves or their family against a robber and used a gun. I can name many instances where someone was killed with a gun unnecessarily. Erin will fill you in on the stories, Kris and Missy, Frank was a Sheriff that Josh went to school with and he was shot and killed while on duty by a 15 year old kid. A friend of ours had their house broken into and their gun safe turned over and all the guns stolen. My friend in high school Ben was mistaken for an animal in a bush while on a hunting trip and almost lost his leg. I could go on, but I won't. Michael, I don't want you to think that this is exclusively to you because I found out that my friend is purposely not telling me that she bought a gun and has it in her house so my kids are not allowed to spend the night over there or be over there without me. I don't want you to think that we don't like you. I do like you. I think that you are funny and fun to be around. I thought you carrying a gun on your belt to Christmas dinner when you know our wishes was disrespectful and it shows that you don't like us and you don't respect us and I am sorry for that.


MY BOYFRIEND: and i guess i should have read the whole thing first, i believe it is disrespectful for you to try and take away rights given by the constitution just because you don't like something, and fyi you did ask erin what adaline was cryin about when you started pmsing


MY SISTERS: do not fear guns. I fear people that use them out of fear and anger. You will not carry them around my kids and if you refuse to leave it in my car, you will not be welcome around my kids.

MY BOYFRIEND:well then i guess that is the case then so be it
leaving firearms in cars is unresponsible because that is how guns get stolen and into the hands of wrong people which cause senseless crimes and murders... but i was specifically told the reason they were rushed off to the bedroom in the first place was because i was legally carrying my firearm

SISTER: I am done with this conversation. You apparently don't give a **** about other people's feelings. My kids are not taught to fear guns. I was not taught to fear guns. You guys are making me out to be the bad guy, even when I told you that I like to be around you. You have disrespected not only our wishes but Ashlie's as well. Maybe you will understand if you ever have kids. I am sorry that my kids will not be around to meet them as long as you continue to be disrespectful.

BOYFRIEND: if i ever have kids as soon as they are old enough to understand they will be holding firearms.. a don't think i want them to be around you or your brat kids..disrespectfull is your kids telling erin that she is stupid or that they don't like her give respect and respect will be given

And then later today my brother-in-law well use to be they disown us now. This is what he had to say.

Brother-in-law:
It's about time I stepped in here. First of all -- Dylan has been around guns. He has taken gun safety classes and has shot a gun. It's not about us teaching them that guns are evil AT ALL. It's about us nicely asking that you not bring a weapon around our children and you blatantly ignoring the request. He was WRESTLING WITH YOU (which by the way ... See Morea kid who doesn't like you probably wouldn't do) and his foot was KICKING THE PISTOL ON YOUR BELT. Do you not see the problem with that? I don't give a **** that you have a gun, though I will admit I think you are a bit immature to have one. A responsible gun owner would not talk about getting his gun out and shooting people when they cut you off in traffic. I don't care if people do cocaine -- just don't do it around my kids. That is the issue here. PERIOD.
And, on top of all of this, you have resorted to talking bad about a three year old and an eight year old. Kinda goes back to the whole maturity thing I mentioned above. I do not believe in any way that they ever called you guys stupid. I think ANY ONE who knows them and knows us can vouch for that -- they have never called anyone stupid and we ... See Morewould most certainly not allow them to say, That being said, it is entirely possible that Adaline WHO IS A THREE YEAR OLD has said that she didn't like you or Erin. SHE IS A THREE YEAR OLD. She says things like that. She was tired. It was after her bed time. Maybe she didn't have a nap. If you take what a 3 year old says to heart, maybe that's because you are operating on the same level. So I guess that explains it. She tells me sometimes that she doesn't like me. That's what little girls do. They are moody. But you, Michael, crossed the line by calling them names. They are children. And you, Erin, crossed the line by not defending your niece and your nephew when your boyfriend called them names. So I'm sorry for both of you. Michael, you are not welcome around our children any longer. Not because of you own a gun, but because of your attitude and the hateful words you said about a THREE YEAR OLD AND AN EIGHT YEAR OLD. And BTW, it wasn't just us who was upset about you having the gun.

So have a nice life. Enjoy it. Merry Christmas. It was nice knowing you guys-- especially you, Erin, who I have known since you were in elementary school. I genuinely enjoyed what time we spent together. Too bad you had to ignore a parents' wishes for the safety of their children so you can feel like a badass with your gun on your side -- at the family Christmas dinner. Bravo. Well done. A Joy to the freaking world.

 

[Bubba]

Wow. Condolences to you on this. I hope reason prevails in this situation. I would address your boyfriend's comment that your sister is taking away rights given by the Constitution to say that a)self-defense predates the Constitution and b)his right to self-defense is equal, not superior, to your sister's right to conduct her own affairs on her private property as she sees fit. Her house, her rules. I am sure your family bonds will hold tight, and hope the discomfort of the situation passes soon.

 

[jsharmon7]

So because the few LEO that your sister knows haven't personally worked a case involving a homeowner defending their family, it isn't a concern? I've never personally known anyone who has had their life saved by a seatbelt, but I still wear mine. I also have never personally known anyone who has had their life saved by a smoke detector, but I make sure mine function properly.

Unfortunately, I have to say that if it's your sister's house and your sister's kids, you and your boyfriend have to abide by her rules. Either follow the no gun rule at her house or don't go over there. It sounds like you have let her know how you feel, but make sure she's aware that you refuse to disarm (if that's the route you plan to take) and that she should plan accordingly. I hate to see this issue creating divides in a family so my advice would be to decide what's important. You need to decide if carrying your firearm 24/7 is more important than your relationship with your sister and her family; I can't answer that for you. Also, be sure not to burn any bridges along the way either; someday your sister may come around. Some of the things your boyfriend said may cause as much of an issue as your carry habits. Whatever you decide, be polite but be firm so that your family knows where you stand without feeling attacked.

 

[furbymac]

the house didn't belong to the sister that had an issue it belonged to the other sister that didn't have any issues or at least didn't voice any issues or i would have left sooner

 

[ATF Consumer]

Guess he needs to practice cc a little better, as all of this upheaval would not have happened.

 

[JohnP82]

sorry to hear about your situation, that really sucks. unfortunately, i agree it is her house so her rules. i do not like those rules, but i don't have to because it is her house. good luck with your situation, and i hope everyone can get something worked out.

 

[AuntieBellum]

First of all, I am sorry that your family isn't supporting you. Obviously families have differences, but the fact that they won't even hear you or your boyfriend out shows how little respect they have for you. Sadly, I understand this situation all too well.

The falling out in our family was my fault. Two years ago to the day my husband and I went to his parents' house for Christmas morning. They have an odd tradition of champagne at 8:00 am on Christmas (my husband had only a sip). We opened presents, and then his step-mother showed off her newly upgraded engagement ring. We ooohhh'd and aaaahhh'd and then told of our other Christmas presents. When I asked my husband to show his new present, he hesitated, then unholstered his new revolver, unloaded it, and showed it to his family. They politely looked, we left soon after, and then all h-e-double-hockey-sticks broke loose.

His family said no guns. My husband said, as did your boyfriend, that it is his right to carry, pointed out that he is legally able to carry with his LTCH, and that he is trained to do so, having been an armed guard previously. They said he could leave it in his car or the hutch just inside the front door. My husband pointed out, as did you boyfriend, that it is safer on his person. Reasons of children and delicate sensibilities were thrown around, and now my husband still will not go in their home since he cannot carry there. He does obey their wishes, but now simply does not ever go there.

I pass along this story to not make things seem darker since this is obviously not a short-lived disbute in our lives, but rather to show you that you're not the first. I don't have an answer for you. On the flip side, when my dad discovered that my husband carries, my dad pulled out one of his old revolvers to show off. My dad has his LTCH, too, but chooses not to carry since he can't carry to work anyway (works in a government office). When my husband and I visited my grandparents halfway across the country two summers ago, my grandfather pulled out a half dozen guns from all over the house to show off.

It sounds like your family is being irrational. I would point out that the examples they used of people being killed with guns has nothing to do with anyone who carried legally. All of those examples involved a stolen gun, a kid who had no business playing with a gun, etc. While your mom's police friend does not know of any situations in which a legally armed citizen deterred a criminal, I would respond all the better. Perhaps the crime didn't happen simply because the citizen was using their 2nd amendment right. I would also point out that there are ways to secure guns so that children cannot get to them (safes, trigger locks, or both as we tend to use when guests are over). When children are old enough, they can then be taught gun safety so they learn to never touch a gun that they may find anywhere. I would suggest a trip to the range so they can see your boyfriend competently work his gun, but I doubt they would be up for that. All I can do is offer my best wishes that your family makes it through this crisis faster than has ours. Good luck, and kudos to you for standing up for your beliefs in the face of the possibility of losing something dear.

 

[minuteman32]

Many more people are killed in/by cars! How do they get their kids from point A to B?

 

[erinu4]

This house wasn't her house and she didn't even bother to tell him to put it in the car, my mother had to tell him to do so. The gun showed when he bent over and she saw it. My sister who owns the house didn't really care that he had a gun there, it was the other one who did. No they will not go to the shooting range. We was playing a game also and they was telling the kids house guns are BAD!

 

[Integraholic]

As has been stated already. Only the owner of the property can deny a person his or her sidearm. If the family has a problem with it, it's their problem to deal with. It's also your sister's right to raise their kids any way they see fit. I don't see it as something to fight over. Depending on the type of firearm, it could have been disassembled and a piece could have been kept with your boyfriend. The only way people who are against firearms, such as your sister, will ever come around is if they're put into a situation where they could have been protected or saved by someone legally carrying a firearm. I hope this helps.

 

[Astrocreep]

If the family has a problem with it, it's their problem to deal with. It's also your sister's right to raise their kids any way they see fit. I don't see it as something to fight over.

I agree with Integraholic on that point. Don't waste your breath trying to convince gun-phobic people of anything. Go where you want to go, armed or not, but respect the wishes of the property owner.
However, the owner of a property CANNOT deny you your firearm! They can only deny you your welcome on their property.

I also do not agree that any cc firearm should be removed from the control of the LTCH holder or partially/totally disassembled for 'safety's sake'.
This does two things: It disarms you, and it makes the chance of an accident higher each time the weapon is handled in a strange/uncomfortable environment. Firearms should never be unlocked and unattended when children are around.

To the OP:
To be precise, the Constitution (Federal and State) do not grant rights to us as citizens. They serve to protect pre-existing and god-given rights from government infringement; they cannot be revoked by the laws of man.

Sorry you have some ignorant and uninformed/misinformed family members. I feel your pain, but I'm fortunately in a position to not give a darn what my mom and sister think about my choices. It sucks that her kids are going to be brought up in fear and ignorance though.

 

[Integraholic]

However, the owner of a property CANNOT deny you your firearm! They can only deny you your welcome on their property.

It's technically the same thing. If you wish to stay, you have to disarm. If not, you can leave.

 

[22lr]

I have certain family members who felt the same way, until other family members were robbed at gunpoint in there own home. The rest is history but needless to say I have no problem with carrying anymore.

 

[erinu4]

Like I said before that its not her house! it was my other sisters house, and my sister who owns the house doesn't have kids, and she didn't say not to have a firearm at her house! The thing is my sister who doesn't live there didn't say a word to us about the firearm until we gotten home and wrote me and my boyfriend a nasty e-mail.. Now she doesn't want us around her kids b/c we are disrespectful to her. We are upset on how she handled it to us.

 

[Suprtek]

It's no fun dealing with family disagreements at any time, let alone at Christmas. If I understand correctly, the relative with the issue was not the owner of the property where the problem took place. That fact would seem to complicate the issue a little bit. They way I see it, you had a few choices. (Assuming you wanted to resolve the situation with the least amount of conflict)

1. You could just politely excuse yourself and leave.

2. You could attempt to privately discuss the issue with the relative having the problem with the hope of coming to at least a temporary truce for the day.

3. You could put the relative that owns the property on the spot and ask them to make a "ruling". (This choice obviously has the risk of creating future bad feelings)

Without knowing your relatives, none of us can tell you what the best choice would be. However, none of these choices would be ethically wrong. You have to weigh your preference to remain armed against your desire to spend time with your relatives, while taking into account the possible reactions of the personalities involved. You also have to keep in mind that the consequences of your decision could affect the relationship you have with these people for a lifetime.

I firmly believe I have a responsibility to honor the wishes of any property owner with regards to firearms (or most anything else for that matter). Your situation was more complicated because it was a family gathering and the property owner and the family member with the issue were two different parties.

It can be a tough situation and a tough choice. I can't really offer much advice about exactly how to handle it. All I can do is recommend the things I already mentioned to consider before you make your decision. In any case, I wouldn't worry about how it affected the kids. All they are going to remember is what they got for Christmas.

Good Luck and Happy New Year

 

[00BlasterResto]

I am really sorry to hear this, my girlfreinds family was a bit shocked when they first cought sight of me carrying. My girlfreind jumped in real quick and pointed out the P226 in her Galco purse which they also had no idea about, which helped take the heat off of me.
They were surpisingly uninformed and with a demonstartion were quick to realize that even if a little kid disarmed me somehow it would be amazing for a kid to , pull the double action trigger les likely (as promised while at they'r house) the kids would not be able to rack the slide back to chamber a round and follow up with flipping the safety off (92fs). The galco purse has a locking zipper and is always put out of reach.
We alerted them to the fact we had been carrying for some time and that until her aunt noticed a barrel sticking out under a hoody it had never even been an issue.
I started in mumbleing about sex predators before the conversation kinda puttered out.
The kids are her four nieces rangeing from around 1-4 Yrs. old. It has since become all but forgotten.

Her brother (a very good freind of mine) is in the millitary and has been stationed in germany for a while, when his wife go's to visit 2 of her nieces stay with us while she is gone. I think she feels comfortable knowing that the kids are as safe as possible and for a protective mother is very comfortable with the girls staying with us.

Hope that your sister will come to her senses or talk this out and come to a resolution, Mabey some aspect of it bothers her as in the holster has no thumb break or something goofy? It sounds more like It's just guns period and she won't reason at all.

 

[Suprtek]

.... The thing is my sister who doesn't live there didn't say a word to us about the firearm until we gotten home and wrote me and my boyfriend a nasty e-mail.. Now she doesn't want us around her kids b/c we are disrespectful to her. We are upset on how she handled it to us.

Okay, you posted this while I was typing my response. This makes much of what I said kind of irrelevant. If you did not know there was a problem at the time, you can't be expected to do anything about it. You're not a mind reader. Now that you know her feelings, some of what I posted earlier may apply in the future.

 

[Bisley Man]

Like I said before that its not her house! it was my other sisters house, and my sister who owns the house doesn't have kids, and she didn't say not to have a firearm at her house! The thing is my sister who doesn't live there didn't say a word to us about the firearm until we gotten home and wrote me and my boyfriend a nasty e-mail.. Now she doesn't want us around her kids b/c we are disrespectful to her. We are upset on how she handled it to us.

I think you have the right to be upset, nasty e-mails are not the way to convey displeasure with family.(business, yes)

 

[Clay]

their house, their rules.

and

concealed means concealed.

Pretty much all I have to say.

 

[aikidoka]

If my family made that big a stink I would just go to a pocket pistol. That is if I still wanted to hang out with them after that. As it stands now, anyone who has paid attention in my family knows I have a carry license and that I do carry and somehow at one family get together I had my pistol with me when my cousin said hey lets shoots some targets out in the yard. I do conceal right now around family at holidays. I figure better to ask forgiveness and conceal better next time, than ask for permission and have it denied.