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So what happens when the debt can't be paid off?
- Thread starter BogWalker
- Start date
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I think Massachusetts would invade Rhode Island pretty quickly. Wouldn't be pretty.
I think we're already seeing that happen with California...See Colorado.
For purposes of this discussion, I will use China as the primary lender. Also, the phrase 'printing dollars' refers to the issuance of debt, not the actual physical production of paper money.
The US will continue to print dollars thereby reducing the average value of each. China will use these dollars to buy real assets in the US like farmland, port facilities, commercial building, and mines. I believe that China is buying farmland thru shell companies and that is helping to drive Indiana farmland to prices that are up to 10 times what they were 40 years ago.
China will also use these cheap dollars to influence lawmakers. I suspect China was the force behind Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" campaign. Plus he probably scores some tree hugging co-eds at every speaking engagement. Just a guess.
China would love to see even less manufacturing done in the US thereby increasing China's market share worldwide.
The US will continue to print dollars thereby reducing the average value of each. China will use these dollars to buy real assets in the US like farmland, port facilities, commercial building, and mines. I believe that China is buying farmland thru shell companies and that is helping to drive Indiana farmland to prices that are up to 10 times what they were 40 years ago.
China will also use these cheap dollars to influence lawmakers. I suspect China was the force behind Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" campaign. Plus he probably scores some tree hugging co-eds at every speaking engagement. Just a guess.
China would love to see even less manufacturing done in the US thereby increasing China's market share worldwide.
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Looking into the debt it is also odd that the Japanese own a large portion of it. roisigns your theory makes sense when I think of it with the Japanese. I've heard tell of several nearby properties being bought by Japanese individuals who don't even live in this state.
jblomenberg16
Grandmaster
Would like to see your sources of info for the China buying farmland theory. It could be true, but all of the land around here seems to have gone to people that I know personally, and am pretty sure they aren't part of a China shell corporation.
The same thing that happened to other countries will happen to the US. The house of cards cannot stand, even with the debt being owed mainly to ourselves (foriegn debt isn't enough for them to truely "own" us or just come in and take over like one would in a business sense). We will see hyper inflation and shortage of goods. It will force people to be self sufficient for things like food and water.
Most likely there will be some sort of war, since the Dollar is such a key part of global trade. I don't think we'll see it start with an initial attack or invasion of the US mainland, but probably some outlying territory and provinces, and maybe even Alaska / Hawaii.
After the war, there will be a redistribution of power and with that power will be economic power.
" I believe that China is buying farmland..."
A theory does not require a source...it is similar to a prediction. Our family has owned a flatland farm in Indiana since 1971 that was bought for about $600 per acre. We have sold high quality livestock including some to multi-million dollar agricultural corporations from Singapore and Taiwan to serve as mating material to improve their herds. I also have professional experience in buying and selling millions of dollars in grain. You might take a look at my avatar.
I mention a shell company because the buyer of record would be something like 'Ag Properties, Inc.' owned by some big bank on the west coast and headquartered in Kansas instead of 'Screw Yankee Imperialist Dog 'cuz we are from China, Inc.' headquartered in Shanghai. The bidder from Ag Properties would likely be as American as you or me.
From Reuters:
".......On the other side are often investors who view U.S. farmland as the latest hot commodity, with prices soaring at a rate not seen since the 1970s, in some cases to record highs.
In the Hawkeye State, the nation's leading corn producer, prices have risen by nearly a third, as many bet that China's expanding wealth, the increased use of biofuels and a growing global population that has just passed 7 billion will put a premium on fertile soil for decades to come.
The philosophy prevailed here (Iowa) and elsewhere in the Midwest in the late 1970s and early 1980s, as fear of outside investors resulted in some states passing laws that banned farmland from being owned by foreigners and corporations.
For decades, they got their way. In 1982, 94 percent of the state's farmland was owned by people who lived in Iowa, according to data compiled by Iowa State University...................today, about 20 percent of Iowa farm land is owned by people who don't live in the state, according to Iowa State University data.
The average Iowa farmland owner is a single woman - often a widow - who is over the age of 70.......
...(In Indiana) When a local farm widow died, and her out-of-town heirs put her land up for sale, Schaper and his aging father cashed in their savings and went to the auction.
"There were all these outsiders. There was a person from North Carolina, bidding on the phone against us," said Schaper, 57.
The Schapers won, but paid more than they wanted: $420,000 for 60 acres. ($7000 per acre in Indiana)
Insight: In Iowa, farmland boom means end of an era for many | Reuters
Report: Investors (China?) buying up US farmland at alarming rate
A theory does not require a source...it is similar to a prediction. Our family has owned a flatland farm in Indiana since 1971 that was bought for about $600 per acre. We have sold high quality livestock including some to multi-million dollar agricultural corporations from Singapore and Taiwan to serve as mating material to improve their herds. I also have professional experience in buying and selling millions of dollars in grain. You might take a look at my avatar.
I mention a shell company because the buyer of record would be something like 'Ag Properties, Inc.' owned by some big bank on the west coast and headquartered in Kansas instead of 'Screw Yankee Imperialist Dog 'cuz we are from China, Inc.' headquartered in Shanghai. The bidder from Ag Properties would likely be as American as you or me.
From Reuters:
".......On the other side are often investors who view U.S. farmland as the latest hot commodity, with prices soaring at a rate not seen since the 1970s, in some cases to record highs.
In the Hawkeye State, the nation's leading corn producer, prices have risen by nearly a third, as many bet that China's expanding wealth, the increased use of biofuels and a growing global population that has just passed 7 billion will put a premium on fertile soil for decades to come.
The philosophy prevailed here (Iowa) and elsewhere in the Midwest in the late 1970s and early 1980s, as fear of outside investors resulted in some states passing laws that banned farmland from being owned by foreigners and corporations.
For decades, they got their way. In 1982, 94 percent of the state's farmland was owned by people who lived in Iowa, according to data compiled by Iowa State University...................today, about 20 percent of Iowa farm land is owned by people who don't live in the state, according to Iowa State University data.
The average Iowa farmland owner is a single woman - often a widow - who is over the age of 70.......
...(In Indiana) When a local farm widow died, and her out-of-town heirs put her land up for sale, Schaper and his aging father cashed in their savings and went to the auction.
"There were all these outsiders. There was a person from North Carolina, bidding on the phone against us," said Schaper, 57.
The Schapers won, but paid more than they wanted: $420,000 for 60 acres. ($7000 per acre in Indiana)
Insight: In Iowa, farmland boom means end of an era for many | Reuters
Report: Investors (China?) buying up US farmland at alarming rate
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Along those lines, I saw this story the other day:" I believe that China is buying farmland..."
A theory does not require a source...it is similar to a prediction. Our family has owned a flatland farm in Indiana since 1971 that was bought for about $600 per acre. We have sold high quality livestock including some to multi-million dollar agricultural corporations from Singapore and Taiwan to serve as mating material to improve their herds. I also have professional experience in buying and selling millions of dollars in grain. You might take a look at my avatar.
I mention a shell company because the buyer of record would be something like 'Ag Properties, Inc.' owned by some big bank on the west coast and headquartered in Kansas instead of 'Screw Yankee Imperialist Dog 'cuz we are from China, Inc.' headquartered in Shanghai. The bidder from Ag Properties would likely be as American as you or me.
From Reuters:
".......On the other side are often investors who view U.S. farmland as the latest hot commodity, with prices soaring at a rate not seen since the 1970s, in some cases to record highs.
In the Hawkeye State, the nation's leading corn producer, prices have risen by nearly a third, as many bet that China's expanding wealth, the increased use of biofuels and a growing global population that has just passed 7 billion will put a premium on fertile soil for decades to come.
The philosophy prevailed here (Iowa) and elsewhere in the Midwest in the late 1970s and early 1980s, as fear of outside investors resulted in some states passing laws that banned farmland from being owned by foreigners and corporations.
For decades, they got their way. In 1982, 94 percent of the state's farmland was owned by people who lived in Iowa, according to data compiled by Iowa State University...................today, about 20 percent of Iowa farm land is owned by people who don't live in the state, according to Iowa State University data.
The average Iowa farmland owner is a single woman - often a widow - who is over the age of 70.......
...(In Indiana) When a local farm widow died, and her out-of-town heirs put her land up for sale, Schaper and his aging father cashed in their savings and went to the auction.
"There were all these outsiders. There was a person from North Carolina, bidding on the phone against us," said Schaper, 57.
The Schapers won, but paid more than they wanted: $420,000 for 60 acres. ($7000 per acre in Indiana)
Insight: In Iowa, farmland boom means end of an era for many | Reuters
Report: Investors (China?) buying up US farmland at alarming rate
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-is-happening-right-now-with-farmland-prices/
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It's not an issue of paying, it's an issue of ability to pay. The debt is just a number. It's only meaning is in its relation to other numbers. Like GDP. And tax capacity.
The simple way out of this is to grow the economy, so that debt becomes a smaller percentage of GDP. That could be done very, very fast through tax cuts. Eliminate capital gains taxes and corporate taxes and watch the economy soar. The debt shrinks to meaninglessness, there are more jobs that people, and to paraphrase a former President, the pie gets higher.
The simple way out of this is to grow the economy, so that debt becomes a smaller percentage of GDP. That could be done very, very fast through tax cuts. Eliminate capital gains taxes and corporate taxes and watch the economy soar. The debt shrinks to meaninglessness, there are more jobs that people, and to paraphrase a former President, the pie gets higher.
Twangbanger
Grandmaster
- Oct 9, 2010
- 7,113
- 113
Get ready for a $74 loaf of bread.
You've been coached and warned to "save enough" for retirement...they just didn't tell you why.
You've been coached and warned to "save enough" for retirement...they just didn't tell you why.
They already are sovereign states. They can flip the proverbial bird to the feds anytime they so choose. But don't because they like the teat of federal funds just too much. The feds will lose control when the states decide to put on the big boy pants again. What happens when the feds lose the control is up for discussion. I'd put my money on a company-wide re-organization though.
Sovereign is not synonymous with independent though. If that's the direction you were heading. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax, and it wouldn't turn out well for the state(s) that decided to do it while the feds still hold tightly to the reins.
I suppose I did mean independent 88GT. Seems very far off, but just the way states identify themselves fairly independently I don't see it is out of the realm of impossibility. Certainly not going to happen with a fed still standing strong, but if massive inflation leads to a weak and ineffectual government and military I can see it happening.
Maybe this could be fixed or delayed if America once again had a decent manufacturing base? Seems some heavy industry and factory work would be a quick boost to economy and work force. As it is though the third world is so much more affordable for these companies to operate in.
Isn't that something. The fix for our economy would only arrive here if our economy entirely collapsed. I just don't think our country is geared towards a banking and information technology economy.
Maybe this could be fixed or delayed if America once again had a decent manufacturing base? Seems some heavy industry and factory work would be a quick boost to economy and work force. As it is though the third world is so much more affordable for these companies to operate in.
Isn't that something. The fix for our economy would only arrive here if our economy entirely collapsed. I just don't think our country is geared towards a banking and information technology economy.
...so after 100% inflation comes...Argentina! Unemployment over 20%, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/the-empty-atm/video-full-episode/670/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/the-empty-atm/video-full-episode/670/
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hornadylnl
Shooter
- Nov 19, 2008
- 21,505
- 63
" I believe that China is buying farmland..."
A theory does not require a source...it is similar to a prediction. Our family has owned a flatland farm in Indiana since 1971 that was bought for about $600 per acre. We have sold high quality livestock including some to multi-million dollar agricultural corporations from Singapore and Taiwan to serve as mating material to improve their herds. I also have professional experience in buying and selling millions of dollars in grain. You might take a look at my avatar.
I mention a shell company because the buyer of record would be something like 'Ag Properties, Inc.' owned by some big bank on the west coast and headquartered in Kansas instead of 'Screw Yankee Imperialist Dog 'cuz we are from China, Inc.' headquartered in Shanghai. The bidder from Ag Properties would likely be as American as you or me.
From Reuters:
".......On the other side are often investors who view U.S. farmland as the latest hot commodity, with prices soaring at a rate not seen since the 1970s, in some cases to record highs.
In the Hawkeye State, the nation's leading corn producer, prices have risen by nearly a third, as many bet that China's expanding wealth, the increased use of biofuels and a growing global population that has just passed 7 billion will put a premium on fertile soil for decades to come.
The philosophy prevailed here (Iowa) and elsewhere in the Midwest in the late 1970s and early 1980s, as fear of outside investors resulted in some states passing laws that banned farmland from being owned by foreigners and corporations.
For decades, they got their way. In 1982, 94 percent of the state's farmland was owned by people who lived in Iowa, according to data compiled by Iowa State University...................today, about 20 percent of Iowa farm land is owned by people who don't live in the state, according to Iowa State University data.
The average Iowa farmland owner is a single woman - often a widow - who is over the age of 70.......
...(In Indiana) When a local farm widow died, and her out-of-town heirs put her land up for sale, Schaper and his aging father cashed in their savings and went to the auction.
"There were all these outsiders. There was a person from North Carolina, bidding on the phone against us," said Schaper, 57.
The Schapers won, but paid more than they wanted: $420,000 for 60 acres. ($7000 per acre in Indiana)
Insight: In Iowa, farmland boom means end of an era for many | Reuters
Report: Investors (China?) buying up US farmland at alarming rate
My grandfather paid $600 per acre and recently sold some for around $6500. The capital gains taxes were horrendous.
Remember the story after WW1 in Germany. The German dollar was so devaluated for years that when a woman with a wheel barrow full of paper money stopped at a bakery and went inside to see what the price of a loaf of bread was, all she found when she went out was a pile of cash on the sidewalk. The wheel barrow was gone.
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