So... what's the *MARKET* for hand loaded ammo?

[rat-man]

During my last trip to the 1500, I passed a pretty large vendor table who had seemingly HUNDREDS of little blue plastic boxes of hand-loaded ammo, and it got me wondering - who actually buys hand loads?

I took a closer look and saw that it appears to be all new starline brass, and pricing for 95gr-ish 380 was about $30/50, so it's not like it's AMAZINGLY cheaper to buy them vs. factory ammo.

I understand the cost savings of reloading and the therapy it provides, but as a money-making operation, it seems like a LOT of outlay in capital and time before you'd ever make a very marginalized profit, even with the nuts-o conditions right now.

I assume you're relegated to online sales and gun shows, but I just wonder how much potential market there really is selling to individuals. Seems like you'd have to land some club or range contracts to make any money selling handloaded ammo.

Please prove me wrong, I'd welcome it in this case!

 

[xM3RC1L3SS1x]

I agree that it would take a long time before one might see a profit. Personally I wouldn't sell handliads due to not wanting to be held reliable, and to the fact that I myself will use them. I also wouldnt pay $30/50 rounds of reloads. Just my opinion though.

 

[Tula47]

During my last trip to the 1500, I passed a pretty large vendor table who had seemingly HUNDREDS of little blue plastic boxes of hand-loaded ammo, and it got me wondering - who actually buys hand loads?

You wouldn't happen to remember the name of the company would you? I picked up 400rds of "factory reloads" made of new win nickle cases and 124gr Hornady XTP bullets.... but there was a big savings I paid $6 bucks per 50 from a guy that got that got rid of his 9mm.

 

[PistolBob]

I won't even share my handloads with my shooting buds. I can't guarantee that every round is perfectly crafted and I sure as hell wouldn't want to be responsible for blowing up someone elses gun and running the risk of injuring them. I have reloaded thousands and thousands of pistol rounds, and I know for a fact I have double charged a round at least three times. Not worth the risk to others. BTW, I weigh every finished round nowadays....it's been a long time since I double charged.

 

[SpaldingPM]

Without a license and proper insurance.... its highly illegal to sell ammunition you've manufactured yourself anyways.

 

[rat-man]

Without a license and proper insurance.... its highly illegal to sell ammunition you've manufactured yourself anyways.

Yeah, then there's that too, though I have a feeling that gun show vendors like the one I mentioned (and I could be wrong, sorry I don't recall the vendor's name, I'll get it if they're at the next one I attend) don't have govt permission, and doubt the insurance either, but it seems you could avoid a lot of issues by making an at-your-own-risk disclosure.

It seems to me if you buy reloads you're doing so knowing you're not buying factory ammo, and if I were ever to attempt it, I probably wouldn't be doing so with maxiumum powder charges.

 

[indyblue]

Doesn't Profire sell reloaded ammo? How do they do it legally?

 

[rat-man]

Doesn't Profire sell reloaded ammo? How do they do it legally?

I'm not sure on that one. I know they sell the components, as I've purchased from them before, but ammo I don't recall seeing for sale in the cases. Would be good to know if they do and what the hurdles are.

 

[SEIndSAM]

Doesn't Profire sell reloaded ammo? How do they do it legally?

Profire used to sell reloads that they did themselves. They had the appropriate permits and insurance. They stopped about a year ago because the insurance became to expensive for them to turn a profit.

 

[ViperJock]

is it illegal to sell as a business or at all? What if your buddy needs a few rounds and pays for the components and you load them for him?

 

[shibumiseeker]

is it illegal to sell as a business or at all? What if your buddy needs a few rounds and pays for the components and you load them for him?

Perfectly fine.

Like buying and selling firearms, the critical language is in the "making a business of" in the regulations. If you loaded some ammo, got out of the reloading game or stopped reloading for that caliber and decided to sell off a few of your reloads you'd likely have no trouble with it. If you are setting up a booth at gunshows you'd better be licensed to do so. Your buddy wants you to reload some custom ammo for him and pays for the stuff you reload with, fine. Pays you to do it, not fine though you will probably get away with it until the gun blows up and he is injured, whether or not he sues you.

The liability for making ammo is HUGE. Even commercial ammo made on automated equipment with modern quality controls occasionally blow up a gun. Insurance companies really don't want to touch the small producer, and even if Profire had not had to stop because his premium DOUBLED in spite of no claims, all it would have taken for him to be uninsurable was to have one claim against him regardless of whether it was his fault or not.

 

[wolfman]

From the quote pasted below from the Profire is Moving thread, it looks like he is going to resume ammo manufacturing.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/profire-arms-supply-inc/311891-profire-moving.html

We will also be doing in-house firearms sales, suppressor and Title II firearms, as well as bringing back our custom ammunition manufacturing capabilities.

 

[DocIndy]

Doesn't Profire sell reloaded ammo? How do they do it legally?

Andrew spent a lot of $$ for the proper FFL and insurance to manufacture ammunition for resale. I would also assume without knowing what company was selling loaded ammo at the gunshow, that they are also licensed and are loading ammo from new components. If they are priced close to new ammo prices, probably have the correct FFL and are collecting taxes on the ammo. Uncle Sam has to have his cut of course. Now, Profire suspended ammunition production of his RedStar brand when his insurance company increased his rates through the roof without ever having filed a single claim. They can do this since there is only one insurance company in the field.

 

[SpaldingPM]

Yeah, then there's that too, though I have a feeling that gun show vendors like the one I mentioned (and I could be wrong, sorry I don't recall the vendor's name, I'll get it if they're at the next one I attend) don't have govt permission, and doubt the insurance either, but it seems you could avoid a lot of issues by making an at-your-own-risk disclosure.

It seems to me if you buy reloads you're doing so knowing you're not buying factory ammo, and if I were ever to attempt it, I probably wouldn't be doing so with maxiumum powder charges.

If they were doing it at the Indy 1500, they were legally selling. My father works for the ATF and he works the gun show every quarter. That's his responsibility there... to monitor the sale of ammunition. His other associates have other responsibilities.

 

[WWalker]

I have bought some of those " blue box reloads " from that vendor at the 1500 a few times, till I stopped going to it. Before the Great Ammo Shortage his prices were reasonable and the ammo I got I was very happy with it's performance. He was set up at Stout Field gun show Sat. and I must admit I got a little " sticker shock " over the prices now.

 

[snapping turtle]

I got special 222 rem ammo made for contender barrels
from he blue box guy before i reloaded myself. It was nothing fancy just a recipe out of an old contender book using faster. Urninv
powder. He made the. And had the sealed in a box with my name on the outside.

Now i feel much better about doing the whole job myself and found out that tweaking is a science in itself.

 

[wpmason]

I bought a box of 100 357s and a box of 100 38s from that table a few years ago to go along with a new Marlin 1894c purchase. Every round fired with no issues to speak of, and, at the time, the price was right. (I think the 357s were around $40 and the 38s were around $30, I just remember spending roughly $70 bucks. They were all 158 gr lead SWCs, which was perfect for breaking the rifle in. I've since started handloading those particular calibers, so I have no need for any more, but for $0.20/0.15/round, it wasn't a bad deal. I load 357s with 158 gr. XTPs at around $0.25 per, and my 38s run considerably cheaper than that.

Just like anyone in the know, I'd never stake my life on a round from a blue box... but for just punching holes in paper and cans, it's not a bad way to go. At least, it wasn't before the prices went all wonky.

 

[Iroquois]

Not something I would get into. Most commercial reloaders use motorized equipment that requires a huge cash outlay upfront . The laws are convoluted and probably change often [as most ATFE policies do} a friend of mine did this for the local club in the 80s & 90s ...the tax rules were different depending on whether you trade brass in or load the costumer's own brass.
In todays atmosphere I'd be even more reluctant to take the chance ; both legally and liability wise. Just my two cents worth.

 

[jbrooks19]

I may be wrong here but i was told the only way to legally sell reloads with out the proper insurance and license was if you had them already reloaded for a gun you currently owned, then sold the gun, then sold the ammo because you do not have a gun in that caliber anymore, but i may be wrong...

 

[kwood]

Andrew spent a lot of $$ for the proper FFL and insurance to manufacture ammunition for resale. I would also assume without knowing what company was selling loaded ammo at the gunshow, that they are also licensed and are loading ammo from new components. If they are priced close to new ammo prices, probably have the correct FFL and are collecting taxes on the ammo. Uncle Sam has to have his cut of course. Now, Profire suspended ammunition production of his RedStar brand when his insurance company increased his rates through the roof without ever having filed a single claim. They can do this since there is only one insurance company in the field.

I was told last week that they started selling Red Star ammo again
i could be wrong, but ill have to ask him next time i see him