Some IDPA what if's re: scoring

[Grelber]

You know, there's a lot more democrats on Ingo than I'da figured Anyway, food for thought.

The Kentucky IDPA state match was recently cancelled because there was not a large enough group of folks who wanted to sacrifice large chunks of time and put themselves on the line as s.o.'s. That is second hand but I think it is gospel.
The Lewisport match (IPSC) a couple months prior was held up because out of the 50+ shooters they couldn't find enough people who would step up to be r.o.'s. without some friendly arm twisting.
At my club I went to the s.o. course because I felt guilty about watching people die on the vine from trying to run 10 - 15 shooters through 5 stages with little to no relief. At the other local club in my area I'm very happy to help out if asked, for exactly the same reason.
If there is a pool of more qualified people who would like to be s.o.'s , please step forward. Pretty please. Really.

 

[rala]

Let me put my 2 cents in as an RO. Yes I'm trained, Yes I'm a volunteer, Yes I shoot for free-Sometimes not always. And yes I make mistakes. I try and do the best job, but there is a lot going on, and once a month is not much opportunity to improve. You can practice stages, target presentations, etc, but you can't practice being an RO except at a match.

My role is primarily Safety- yours mine , everybody. Scoring and then match flow are next. I care about the overall experience of the full squad. Shooters of different skill levels will have different expectations. There will always be a balancing act.

The comments on scoring. You should follow the RO as they score. No reason not to. You can see your scorecard at any point during or after the match. I've never heard of anyone saying no. I've looked at targets, knew what it was and the wrong thing came out of my mouth. Or it's near the end of the day and I can't do basic math anymore. People let you know and you correct your mistake then move on. It's not a big deal. As to the 2 shots that "clearly touched the perforation"- maybe, but in a normal match with 10 shooters and 100 round count i look at over 1000 bullet holes- rule book says it's the grease ring that counts not the tears in the paper and that's where it can be subjective. Again just ask.

Procedural- My process (and this is just me) is to let the shooter shoot the stage. Safety calls (trigger-Muzzle) are automatic, Cover or use of the wrong hand or shooting position are not coming unless I see the shooter really struggling with the stage. It's not up to me to coach the shooter thru the stage. After shooting I make sure the shooter is secure, call out the time and # of procedurals, with basic info- cover or too many rounds on LV stage or whatever. Then move to score targets. I don't give details unless asked, but I'm happy to explain. Not everybody wants to know. https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif

Bottom line is you should understand your score. That's how you will improve. If you think there is mistake ask the RO he/she will be happy to explain with the understanding they are not there to coach. I can't improve as an RO unless I know where I need work. Talk to the other shooters. They are always happy to help. Me, I've got 9 other eager victims, a match director who is wondering what's holding up the squad and a wife who is miffed about another lost Saturday.

Last comment -Did you have fun?

 

[sbcman]

I'm very happy

I've never known you to be happy about anything

I know you don't mean that since SO/ROs are getting hard to come by and volunteer etc., that the treatment the OP describes should be given a pass. That would just be downright democrat like right there. I think the bulk of shooters at matches, especially if they've been around a bit understand that RO/SOs have the occasional mess up. Not a big deal. I don't get from the OP that this is the case he's dealing with.

But speaking of SO shortages- it is getting low at many clubs and probably won't get a lot better once the new book takes effect.

 

[Grelber]

I've never known you to be happy about anything

Moderately not irritated.

 

[DustyDawg48]

I've never known you to be happy about anything

I know you don't mean that since SO/ROs are getting hard to come by and volunteer etc., that the treatment the OP describes should be given a pass. That would just be downright democrat like right there. I think the bulk of shooters at matches, especially if they've been around a bit understand that RO/SOs have the occasional mess up. Not a big deal. I don't get from the OP that this is the case he's dealing with.

But speaking of SO shortages- it is getting low at many clubs and probably won't get a lot better once the new book takes effect.

Burn out. I think that is the #1 cause of SO/RO shortages. It is hard to attend a match or two a month and always be pressed into service. I have a ton of respect for the guys that show up early and help set up, those that can create courses of fire and put together matches that I attend. It is, for the most part, a thankless job. I personally like the idea of shooting for free if you SO but then you run the risk of only cheapasses volunteering to SO instead of people who would just genuinely be good at it. I know of a few guys that would show up early to help set up but only because they would get a discount. Once the discount stopped...well you can guess who stopped showing to help.

Like others have said, being an all-volunteer force isn't an excuse for poor SOing. It is just flat possible the individual doesn't know the rules about giving the better score to the shooter. You cannot be afraid to voice your concern and ask for them to wait up while you follow them and help check your scores. And you definitely cannot be timid about reminding them of the rules.

 

[sbcman]

At the risk of getting entirely flamed, some of the SO shortage/burnout problem is from the club's own doing. There's some dudes putting major time and effort getting matches going, and then they SO the match. No doubt, that can weigh on a guy. I like the way one club handles it. It's basically like this: Set up starts at 8:30, Registration ends at 9:00. If you are not registered by 9:00, you don't shoot. When you register, the sweet lady taking you money and info will then say "looks like they need some help in bay 3, you can go help there." Runs very smoothly and courses are put up right now with that much help. AND while all this happening, the SOs are gathered together with the MD reviewing the courses. Takes a big burden off of them. I'm always amazed that this particular club can begin without a single course set-up, put 50-60 shooters through courses generally taken from major matches, and be done and over in 3 hours. That in and of itself helps those working the match.

They also do this thing where all the shooters go through the match with the MD before things start. The MD is thorough in not only describing the courses but explaining what will and will not earn procedurals and so forth. The first time I shot there I thought that doing this would take forever, but it works and everybody knows what's up. Most places just walk the SOs through.

I don't know if any of this applies to the OP's problem SO, but it might.

 

[singlestacksig]

If the RO makes an error , ask him about it.. If the RO is pushing for speed over being fair and equal to everyone he is making errors..
Did the score keeper watch the scores also ? A good RO/scorekeeper team will both check the hits.. and you may see them change their ruling if you talk to them about it..

 

[DustyDawg48]

At the risk of getting entirely flamed, some of the SO shortage/burnout problem is from the club's own doing. There's some dudes putting major time and effort getting matches going, and then they SO the match. No doubt, that can weigh on a guy. I like the way one club handles it. It's basically like this: Set up starts at 8:30, Registration ends at 9:00. If you are not registered by 9:00, you don't shoot. When you register, the sweet lady taking you money and info will then say "looks like they need some help in bay 3, you can go help there." Runs very smoothly and courses are put up right now with that much help. AND while all this happening, the SOs are gathered together with the MD reviewing the courses. Takes a big burden off of them. I'm always amazed that this particular club can begin without a single course set-up, put 50-60 shooters through courses generally taken from major matches, and be done and over in 3 hours. That in and of itself helps those working the match.

They also do this thing where all the shooters go through the match with the MD before things start. The MD is thorough in not only describing the courses but explaining what will and will not earn procedurals and so forth. The first time I shot there I thought that doing this would take forever, but it works and everybody knows what's up. Most places just walk the SOs through.

I don't know if any of this applies to the OP's problem SO, but it might.

It is the 80/20 rule in effect...80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. Most small clubs, especially in their competitive shooting infancy, are begging for help of all kinds. Some places have a huge number of people that are ready to volunteer and that helps because you can get into a rotation of sorts to help spell the SO's and MD's and especially the COF designers. If you have some SO's that just aren't aware of the rules it can make or break matches much in the OP's case.

You have to be very confident in your club's offering to take a competitor's money and then press them into service. Plus, you have to have some MD's be able to delegate to those they trust to get everything set up properly.

A club does need to evaluate their SO's and RO's from time to time and insure that they are up to snuff in their knowledge of the rules. Some people are brilliant people persons and others have the stomach for making the right calls, even if they mean DQing the competitor.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

Burnout is definitely a concern. I also am a strong supporter for the "RO shoot free" idea. I'll happily RO for a discount or free, but if someone makes me pay full price and then tells me to RO, that's quite a smack in the face. So what if "only the cheapasses" do it, it's still getting done. Lets also not forget that any place a guy on a budget can save $20, and benefit the match, it's a good thing. Any club that is so greedy that they make ROs pay full price is likely always gonna have a staffing problem. To some guys a quick "thank you" or a free match fee is all it takes to get free and friendly labor for years.