South Dakota Sioux Block Highway Travel, Refuse to Remove Checkpoints

[DoggyDaddy]

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Leadeye]

A group has been making money off things being the way they are for Indians here in the USA for a long time. I don't think they will give that up easily.

 

[jedi]

My knowledge is limited on the PR issue.
Short summary years back they could have voted to become a state, petition congress, but their own people did not want it.

They dont have to pay most federal taxes right now but are us citizens. So in essence leeching off the .gov milk wagon.

 

[Route 45]

More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax, and plenty of them are on the milk wagon as well. At least they get to vote. Why should Puerto Ricans have taxation without representation? Same for Native Americans.

Of course, this only applies to those living on the island (PR) or on the reservation. Being full US citizens, both Native Americans and Puerto Ricans DO pay federal taxes if they live and work anywhere else in the US.

Fun fact: There are more Puerto Ricans living in the mainland US than on the island. A LOT more.

 

[DRob]

On the reservations I'm familiar with, the Pine Ridge and Rosebud, Tribal Rangers/Police are THE MAN! Been shooting out there for a long time and have never even seen any other LE personnel. The Tribal Council is the legislative body. Your mileage and their laws may vary.

 

[76Too]

THEIR HOUSE. Their rules. Don’t like it...go around.

I honestly can’t even believe this is a topic of conversation here.

Look up the words ‘sovereign’ and ‘nation’ and tell me what you think they mean when put together.

 

[Trigger Time]

More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax, and plenty of them are on the milk wagon as well. At least they get to vote. Why should Puerto Ricans have taxation without representation? Same for Native Americans.

Of course, this only applies to those living on the island (PR) or on the reservation. Being full US citizens, both Native Americans and Puerto Ricans DO pay federal taxes if they live and work anywhere else in the US.

Fun fact: There are more Puerto Ricans living in the mainland US than on the island. A LOT more.

We need to kick PR out of the u.s.
Or rather detach it from the teet

 

[femurphy77]

Unless the Feds want to go all Ruby Ridge on them they'll just have to wait until the liquor runs out and everybody goes home. The Kio-Man-Ches in SW Oklahoma got into a big internal spat down there several years ago. One group took over the main tribal hall and barricaded themselves in for a period of time. The only thing local LEO did was keep the sight seers out of the area until it all blew over. They eventually got tired of playing that game and every body went home until the next time.

 

[Route 45]

We need to kick PR out of the u.s.
Or rather detach it from the teet

If we are kicking Americans out of the country, why stop there?

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What would happen if people ignore the checkpoints and just drive through/around them?

Isn't the checkpoint unlawful detainment (or whatever statutory language the lawyers use to describe such)?

Interesting question. Here's one of the checkpoints:

I'm pretty unfamiliar with tribal sovereignty but I think some people here are missing that a recognized government with law enforcement authority is doing this, not just a bunch of hippies, and some of the people manning the checkpoints are recognized LEOs and all of them have the backing of their government. I've looked at the paperwork they ask people to fill out at the checkpoints and at the statements from the various local entities and from what I can tell:

1) They don't have any authority to set up checkpoints on interstates. There's pretty solid agreement on this point.
2) They may have the authority to set up checkpoints on state roads. Much of the state legislature believes they do, but it's not universal agreement.
3) They do have the authority to set up checkpoints on tribal roads. There's pretty solid agreement on this point.

4) They aren't stopping people from continuing on. They are stopping people from entering the tribal lands if they are deemed "high risk" and are an outsider. Tribal members can continue onto tribal lands but must self-quarantine for 14 days.
5) The checkpoints are for both directions. Tribal members must have a travel permit to leave and it must be for "essential travel". Outsiders can leave as normal.

So a whole lot of "it depends."

If anyone wants to see the paperwork that's apparently being used at the checkpoints: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3463114000368790&set=pcb.2774350765997474&type=3&theater

All in all, something I'm glad I don't have to deal with. When I do travel in the southwest I avoid tribal lands on the advise of multiple LEO friends who live out there. I've no desire to find out the outcome of a LEOSA claim on roadways traveling through tribal lands.

 

[Route 45]

Looks like a hodgepodge of regulations with regards to the different tribes. I note some have an exception for a firearm carried in a vehicle for self-protection.

https://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/tribal_law_ccw.pdf

I try to make it out west as much as I can for vacation. I don't go to specifically visit reservations, but sometimes my route takes me through a reservation. I will not be leaving my pistol at home.

 

[chipbennett]

THEIR HOUSE. Their rules. Don’t like it...go around.

I honestly can’t even believe this is a topic of conversation here.

Look up the words ‘sovereign’ and ‘nation’ and tell me what you think they mean when put together.

Interstate highways are federal property that have right-of-way through sovereign tribal territory. So, the interstate highway and its easement are not THEIR HOUSE.

 

[Ark]

Interstate highways are federal property that have right-of-way through sovereign tribal territory. So, the interstate highway and its easement are not THEIR HOUSE.

The Cheyenne River Reservation contains no interstate highways, just state highways.

 

[Methane Herder]

Interstate highways are federal property that have right-of-way through sovereign tribal territory. So, the interstate highway and its easement are not THEIR HOUSE.

I don't think so. The states get money from the federal government to build them. The title to the land they are built on is in the name of the state they are built in (at least in Indiana).
At least all the highway permits that I had to draw up went to I.D.O.T. not the Army Corp of Engineers.
Levees and navigable waterways are A.C.E. controlled.

MH

 

[chipbennett]

The Cheyenne River Reservation contains no interstate highways, just state highways.

US and State Highways are... owned by the State, not the tribes.

I don't think so. The states get money from the federal government to build them. The title to the land they are built on is in the name of the state they are built in (at least in Indiana).
At least all the highway permits that I had to draw up went to I.D.O.T. not the Army Corp of Engineers.
Levees and navigable waterways are A.C.E. controlled.

MH

It appears that you are correct (and I learned something today; thank you). The States own the federal highways within their state lines.

Doing a bit more digging, it appears that 25 USC Chapter 8 establishes federal statutes for right-of-way for federal and state highways through Indian territories.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

US and State Highways are... owned by the State, not the tribes.

On tribal land, that may not be the case. The feds may have authority over state roads in tribal land. Ownership isn't the right question, though. Legal jurisdiction is, and like I said earlier, there's real disagreement in the South Dakota government that they have the authority to enforce laws there:

South Dakota's lawmakers letter to the governor: https://www.westrivereagle.com/arti...unning-through-indian-lands-cite-1990-ruling/

“Your letter indicates “[t]he State of South Dakota objects to tribal checkpoints on US and State highways regardless of whether those checkpoints take into consideration the safety measures recommended by the SD DOT.” This is not an accurate statement of the law of the policy of the State of South Dakota. The Legislature has not passed any bill stating as such, nor does the State of South Dakota have the authority to enforce State law within the boundaries of a Reservation”

[FONT=&amp]They cite the 1851 and 1868 Ft. Laramie Treaties and the 1990 8[/FONT][FONT=&amp]th [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Circuit Court of Appeals which held the State of South Dakota has no jurisdiction over the highways running through Indian lands in the state without tribal consent.
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“We do not wish to be party of another lawsuit that will ultimately cost the people of South Dakota more money. We wish to work with all parties involved for a reasonable, legal, and appropriate solution that address the concerns of all sovereigns involved,” said the congressmen.[/FONT]

Apparently the governor is now backing down and appealing to the feds, who would appear to be the only ones with the authority to intercede, same as any border dispute with a sovereign power. Which leads me to believe that the checkpoints are likely legal at this point, but I claim no expertise to say so definitively.

 

[jbombelli]

Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, muleskinner? You want me to think you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really DON'T want me to go down there.