Squatters...

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Why wouldn't squatters be immediately arrested for possession of stolen property then if they have a legal lease they can prove their innocence and go after the accuser for wrongful accusations?

Possession of a stolen stereo was good enough to get arrested for possession of stolen property back in the day…

The problem seems to usual surround who has legal possession of the property.

To play devil's advocate:

Suppose you do have an agreement to rent/lease a property and the owner decides for some reason he wants you out now. He accuses you of squatting but you are legally there. How does a police officer decide who's in the right? You are proposing someone who is innocent be thrown out, have to hire a lawyer, maybe lose work, money, and time to prove he was in the right in the first place?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Why wouldn't squatters be immediately arrested for possession of stolen property then if they have a legal lease they can prove their innocence and go after the accuser for wrongful accusations?

Possession of a stolen stereo was good enough to get arrested for possession of stolen property back in the day…

So you want someone presenting "a receipt" (lease) that indicates they are permitted to occupy the building arrested first and then they have to prove their innocence by proving the lease is valid?

I dont disagree on principle knowing these scumbags are scammers. But your suggestion is contrary to presumed innocence.

But we do probably need to redo the laws surrounding this. I'm sure it is intended to prevent slumlords from evicting folks early and/or pocketing a security deposit. "Ive never seen these people before in my life." [evil moustache twirl emoji]
But something has got to give, because this is getting ridiculous.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The problem seems to usual surround who has legal possession of the property.

To play devil's advocate:

Suppose you do have an agreement to rent/lease a property and the owner decides for some reason he wants you out now. He accuses you of squatting but you are legally there. How does a police officer decide who's in the right? You are proposing someone who is innocent be thrown out, have to hire a lawyer, maybe lose work, money, and time to prove he was in the right in the first place?

Great minds think alike.

 

[Cameramonkey]

As much as I hate to involve .gov in peoples' lives, but I wonder if there needs to be some kind of registry? Not sure how it would work. Just something like how we register vehicles which enables 3rd party proof of ownership possession. I mention this because we dont seem to have these problems with vehicles, do we?

 

[dieselrealtor]

As much as I hate to involve .gov in peoples' lives, but I wonder if there needs to be some kind of registry? Not sure how it would work. Just something like how we register vehicles which enables 3rd party proof of ownership possession. I mention this because we dont seem to have these problems with vehicles, do we?

There are areas that have vacant property registration.

This is a total guess with no facts or evidenct to support, but I believe that the areas that have such registration are some of the same ones that are having the most serious squatting issues.

 

[Cameramonkey]

There are areas that have vacant property registration.

This is a total guess with no facts or evidenct to support, but I believe that the areas that have such registration are some of the same ones that are having the most serious squatting issues.

Maybe a "I dont rent my property" registry. Kinda like home title lock. Or going dark "if anything happens to me, I'm NOT suicidal."

 

[Ingomike]

The problem seems to usual surround who has legal possession of the property.

To play devil's advocate:

Suppose you do have an agreement to rent/lease a property and the owner decides for some reason he wants you out now. He accuses you of squatting but you are legally there. How does a police officer decide who's in the right? You are proposing someone who is innocent be thrown out, have to hire a lawyer, maybe lose work, money, and time to prove he was in the right in the first place?

First off I think we all agree this is a difficult issue. That said if the owner called in a burglary wouldn’t the police on the scene ask neighbors if they had seen anything? That simple action could eliminate most of the high profile cases we have seen.

If several neighbors say the house was empty until four days ago then the people occupying the dwelling moved in then the officers could decide. If one of the neighbors says they keep an eye on the property for the owner and they saw the occupants acting odd looking around before they moved in the officers could decide.

Maybe I’m wrong here but I thought officers make decisions to arrest regularly, why is this different?

 

[BugI02]

I believe he is referring to the videos of homeowners getting arrested for trying to remove squatters in their house by either confronting them or changing the locks. These videos are in New York and Los Angeles, so not likely to happen here anytime soon. However, some fear an Overton Window situation, that coupled with the video of that illegal telling his followers to break in and live in vacant houses is what is sparking this current round of "around the office water cooler" thread.

Well said, sir! While I disagree with LEO bashing for the most part, it is disheartening to see how often some are willing to carry out what should be illegal orders

 

[Creedmoor]

Maybe I’m wrong here but I thought officers make decisions to arrest regularly, why is this different?

With criminal matters sure, with civil matters that haven't been in front of a judge, not so much.

 

[Michigan Slim]

Every time I pull into the yard at the cabin, I have a gun ready. No permission is given to be there unless my family or I are there. After all the break-ins, I sometimes wish.... Squatters are a real worry for me.

 

[BugI02]

If an officer encountered two people who both claimed ownership of an automobile, the officer has the resources to quickly get up to date information on the official owner of the vehicle

Perhaps the officers should be provided with information available from dispatch as to the recorded owner of property in a dispute as well. The official owner of the property's word should be given greater credence than anyone else and if anyone has to be required to be removed and later prove their claim to the courts it should be the individuals without property rights

Also, since the clock is ticking on a 30 day window after which it becomes much more difficult and time-consuming to have squatters removed, perhaps that clock should be stopped upon the first complaint by the owner that the occupants are not legal

 

[Cameramonkey]

Every time I pull into the yard at the cabin, I have a gun ready. No permission is given to be there unless my family or I are there. After all the break-ins, I sometimes wish.... Squatters are a real worry for me.

Not to threadjack, but you might look into a simple alarm system that uses cellular to communicate. A simple motion sensor inside the cabin is all you really NEED.

And I believe there are ones that will just text you, so you dont have to pay for a monitoring agreement. US Mobile has a $5 plan for SMS alarms.

 

[HoughMade]

If an officer encountered two people who both claimed ownership of an automobile, the officer has the resources to quickly get up to date information on the official owner of the vehicle

Perhaps the officers should be provided with information available from dispatch as to the recorded owner of property in a dispute as well. The official owner of the property's word should be given greater credence than anyone else and if anyone has to be required to be removed and later prove their claim to the courts it should be the individuals without property rights

Also, since the clock is ticking on a 30 day window after which it becomes much more difficult and time-consuming to have squatters removed, perhaps that clock should be stopped upon the first complaint by the owner that the occupants are not legal

Generally speaking, leases do not have to be recorded and leases less than 3 years don't have to be in writing.

What's to keep an unscrupulous landlord from calling a lessee a squatter just because he found someone that will pay more rent?

This is why there is a legal process to determine who has legal rights to occupy the property. It's not just the owner.

 

[Ingomike]

Generally speaking, leases do not have to be recorded and leases less than 3 years don't have to be in writing.

What's to keep an unscrupulous landlord from calling a lessee a squatter just because he found someone that will pay more rent?

This is why there is a legal process to determine who has legal rights to occupy the property. It's not just the owner.

It is going to have to be reworked since the lawless are using the benevolence of the people to screw them. We made laws to protect the innocent tenant from abusive landlord’s but now the criminal element is exploiting them against innocent owners.

It is a tightrope to define.

 

[Ingomike]

If an officer encountered two people who both claimed ownership of an automobile, the officer has the resources to quickly get up to date information on the official owner of the vehicle

Perhaps the officers should be provided with information available from dispatch as to the recorded owner of property in a dispute as well. The official owner of the property's word should be given greater credence than anyone else and if anyone has to be required to be removed and later prove their claim to the courts it should be the individuals without property rights

Also, since the clock is ticking on a 30 day window after which it becomes much more difficult and time-consuming to have squatters removed, perhaps that clock should be stopped upon the first complaint by the owner that the occupants are not legal

I don’t believe anyone can put utilities in their name without ID so a legit tenant would have utility bills as proof of residence.

 

[MrSmitty]

Are squatters bulletproof?
Asking for a friend.....

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It is going to have to be reworked since the lawless are using the benevolence of the people to screw them. We made laws to protect the innocent tenant from abusive landlord’s but now the criminal element is exploiting them against innocent owners.

It is a tightrope to define.

Agreed. It sucks that an innocent land/property owner has the legal system used against them, costing them time and treasure to resolve, with little to no hope of recuperating any of it.

There are plenty of people out there that know exactly how to game the system, skate by, and never have to pay anyone back.

 

[firecadet613]

Move out to the sticks.

Ensure your property is gated and posted "no trespassing".

Something tells me the rural folk will take care of it themselves and not call 911.

If you're in a subdivision and this happens, shame on you for not building a relationship with your neighbors (or having an alarm or camera system).

 

[Cameramonkey]

I don’t believe anyone can put utilities in their name without ID so a legit tenant would have utility bills as proof of residence.

But real world case. My neighbor recently moved out to live with her daughter, where that ranch is better for her health issues.
Whats to stop me from calling the power and water company and transferring them into my name? Or turning service on if they have turned utilities off?

I know her name from the property card. I can print out a fake lease with her and my names on it. And within a month I'll have a utility bill in my name to "prove" I live there. And that's the problem. Watching the above unfold we all know its not legit, but cops cant/wont do anything for fear of violating somebody's rights.

So we need to find a way to CYA without screwing either party.

 

[63PGP]

Dealt with keeping people out of an out of state property about 10 years ago. Property was 2 plus acres with a small house and shop. Met with the local sheriff and asked them how they wanted me to setup the property to allow them to respond and keep people out without having me stop by for every issue. Being in IN that was a problem.

Solution was and this worked:

• Keep all utilities in my name and paid. I was able to lock the accounts so no changes could happen with out my approval.
• Installed solid doors with good bolt locks. Only 3 doors. Gave a full set of keys to a trusted neighbor in case someone needed to get inside.
• Lockable windows with break resistant film on the inside so breaking a window was a serious adventure. That stuff really works well.
• Installed a monitored security system where the monitoring company would call the sheriffs if an alarm went off. This allows them to respond ASAP as a possible B&E.
• Motion sensing security lights with camera's.