Squib Load in Carry Ammo

[rhino]

Which brings my brain back to handloads.

What does anybody think about carrying a magazine full of ammo they loaded themselves?

-Nate

Assuming you're in Indiana, as long as your quality control measures are up to snuff, you have matched the JHP projectile with a compatible muzzle velocity, it's accurate and functions 100% in your gun with your magazones, I don't see a problem. Essentially all the same things I would consider for factory ammo. The only potential issue is if you're concerned about muzzle flash. Some factory defensive ammo has flash retardant in the propellant, but it's unlikely that handloads would have the same.

 

[billybob44]

THANKS for the Safety reminder=AAA+

Had a great time at Farmland Conservation Club shooting with a buddy yesterday, except for a problem with the carry ammo in my G20.

I had a magazine of 15 rounds that had been in the gun for probably just over a year. Factory Winchester 175 gr Silvertips. I was slow firing and had counted through the first 14 rounds. Pulled the trigger the 15th time and just got a click..... I thought. The slide wasn't locked back on the empty magazine, so I racked the slide and an empty case ejected. Huh, that was weird. I loaded another five rounds in the mag, slapped it home, and racked the slide, but it wouldn't go into battery, luckily. I dropped the mag and ejected the loose round that wouldn't chamber. Put the round back in the mag, slapped it home, racked the slide, and again it wouldn't go into battery.

At that point I knew something more serious was going on, so I dropped the mag and racked the slide several times to make sure it was clear. I broke the gun down, looked down the barrel, and low and behold there was a bullet lodged in the throat, just back far enough to prevent another round chambering by about 1/8".

I don't recall hearing any report when I pulled the trigger on that last round, or feeling any recoil. There also wasn't any unburned powder in the barrel/chamber/gun when I broke it down. That leads me to believe that there was no powder in the round at all, and it was just the primer that propelled the bullet into the rifling.

I have 480 rounds of this ammo left, but have no confidence in it now for a self defense situation. I was wanting to try and find something that uses a more modern bullet design, so now I guess I have an even better reason to do so.

First squib, and just glad it didn't blow up my hand or pistol.

THANKS for the reminder to ALWAYS think SAFETY=BUT=:
You said on your last round that you only heard a "click"-NOT a "Pop"=To ME a "click" is a COMPLTELY dead load=No primer, no powder-No NOTHING?? At that time, I would check for: No Case, light primer strike, VERY clean inside of case?

After this, you racked the slide, NOT once, but TWICE with loaded rounds that would NOT go into battery?? To ME-ONCE- would have been more than enough to check more into the problem.

You MUST have had a "Pop" of a fired primer to drive the projectile into the barrel, a "Click" will not move a bullet from the case.

Don't get me wrong==I am not here to "Rag" you--I just think that the post should be stated correctly, or you should review your range safety, or BOTH...

THANKS again for reminding us of the things that can happen==Even with FACTORY Loads...Bill.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Which brings my brain back to handloads.

What does anybody think about carrying a magazine full of ammo they loaded themselves?

-Nate

I do it all the time.

 

[Doublehelix]

Which brings my brain back to handloads.

What does anybody think about carrying a magazine full of ammo they loaded themselves?

-Nate

I don't personally. I have heard that if a situation arises and you have to go to court to defend yourself, it becomes more complicated if you used handloaded rounds. I am not sure if this is an urban myth perpetuated by the Internet, but I have chosen to stay away from it.

If I were to make handloaded SD rounds, I am sure that I could make them as well or better than those that you would buy, and if you were very careful and made each round one at a time, you could ensure the QC was perfect (or as close to perfect as a human could make them).

For me, it is not an issue of handmade quality, but rather an issue of legalities. Something about purposely making a round to be "overly lethal" or something stupid like that.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

This is a reminder that a squib or other ammunition malfunction can occur with any ammunition, even premium factory ammo intended for personal defense. Any brand, any caliber. Keep in mind that a squib can and often does render the weapon useless until you have time and tools to hammer the bullet out of the barrel.

What is your plan if you need to use your gun to defend yourself and you get a squib or other malfunction that can't be fixed without time and tools?

QFT!!!

There are two kinds of shooters:
1.) those who have had a squib
2.) those who will have a squib

Squibs I specifically remember off the top of my head:
Blazer aluminum 380 auto FMJ (bullet stopped in barrel throat, powder didn't ignite)
US Air Force 38 Special surplus (bullet stopped about 6 inches from the end of a rifle barrel)
8mm Mauser WWII German surplus (two-fer on this one, it was a hangfire and squib. Bullet stopped about 6 inches from the end of the barrel.)

I've also had others in 22LR, 38 Special, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 308, and maybe one or two more calibers, but I've forgotten the exact details. If you shoot enough, it will happen sooner or later no matter what caliber or brand of ammunition you are using. Anytime I get a click instead of bang, I always clear and check the barrel before proceeding - a good habit for any shooter.

Edited to add: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rhino again."

 

[Sling10mm]

Well, thanks for "Ragging" me while saying you're "not here to "Rag" you," but I don't believe I asked for an evaluation of my range safety protocols. I was just passing along the experience as one who has never had that experience, but will take your criticism as constructive.

I have been hand-loading for some time, and have had occasion to fire primed cases (no powder, no bullet), and know what a primer sounds like going off. A "pop" for sure. However, the sound/feeling that I experienced when pulling the trigger on the 15th round registered as a "click" perhaps because I was wearing these weird things over my ears to protect my hearing while shooting. You know, that whole range safety thing that you are suggesting I review. I also wear eye protection, go figure. I said "click" in my original post because that is what I experienced, not a "pop." Appreciate your suggestion to edit the thread to describe something I didn't experience though.

Yes, I didn't realize what was going on, having never experienced a squib, and tried chambering another round from a fresh magazine. When it wouldn't go into battery I didn't bang on the back of the slide to try and force the round in the chamber, I just dropped the mag, ejected the round that had been stripped, examined it for any weirdness that might cause it to not chamber, and not seeing any such weirdness, put it back in the mag, and tried it again. I'm a little slow, but after it wouldn't chamber the second time, it dawned on me that there might be a bullet in the throat.

Anyway, I appreciate the well wishers. This has for sure altered my thinking when it comes to malfunctions like this. While I don't shoot as much as some folks here, I did have tens of thousands of rounds down range without a squib before this happened. I wasn't expecting one, so it wasn't the first thing that came to mind when it occurred. Now I'll be more cognizant of it in the future, which was kinda the whole pint of the thread.

THANKS for the reminder to ALWAYS think SAFETY=BUT=:
You said on your last round that you only heard a "click"-NOT a "Pop"=To ME a "click" is a COMPLTELY dead load=No primer, no powder-No NOTHING?? At that time, I would check for: No Case, light primer strike, VERY clean inside of case?

After this, you racked the slide, NOT once, but TWICE with loaded rounds that would NOT go into battery?? To ME-ONCE- would have been more than enough to check more into the problem.

You MUST have had a "Pop" of a fired primer to drive the projectile into the barrel, a "Click" will not move a bullet from the case.

Don't get me wrong==I am not here to "Rag" you--I just think that the post should be stated correctly, or you should review your range safety, or BOTH...

THANKS again for reminding us of the things that can happen==Even with FACTORY Loads...Bill.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Which brings my brain back to handloads.

What does anybody think about carrying a magazine full of ammo they loaded themselves?

-Nate

If pressed into service due to lack of factory ammo, I'd use them. As long as factory loads like the HST, etc. are available I'll use them. It'll probably never matter in criminal court, unless forensic issues arise, but civil court could be a different matter. The better ammo makers are very good in terms of consistency, accuracy, and reliability. Even true hand loads with individually measured powder don't guarantee you won't have a dud primer. Poo happens, and if you shoot enough it'll eventually happen to you.

If you're super concerned about squibs in factory ammo, you could always weigh each cartridge on a powder scale. My carry ammo for my .40 is 238 grains +/- 1 grain. If I found one that was significantly outside that range, I could just toss it in the practice bucket.

 

[Doublehelix]

I had 2 squibs within 2 weeks of each other, both with handmade loads (my own!). Not good. This is when I first started handloading, and I had a problem with my powder thrower, and I was not checking with enough diligence back then. Both issues are now fixed.

For me, I heard the primer go off both times, but no bang, and no slide cycling. I knew right away both times what had happened, but only from reading warnings like this.

Thanks for taking the time to remind us of the "human-ness" of what we do.

 

[dudley0]

My reaction times are on the low end of suck. I worry that if I got a squib in the middle of a string I couldn't react fast enough to stop.

I haven't shaved in a week, so maybe my reaction times will be better now.

 

[billybob44]

A little hurt feelings here..NOT my purpose of my post.

Well, thanks for "Ragging" me while saying you're "not here to "Rag" you," but I don't believe I asked for an evaluation of my range safety protocols. I was just passing along the experience as one who has never had that experience, but will take your criticism as constructive.

I have been hand-loading for some time, and have had occasion to fire primed cases (no powder, no bullet), and know what a primer sounds like going off. A "pop" for sure. However, the sound/feeling that I experienced when pulling the trigger on the 15th round registered as a "click" perhaps because I was wearing these weird things over my ears to protect my hearing while shooting. You know, that whole range safety thing that you are suggesting I review. I also wear eye protection, go figure. I said "click" in my original post because that is what I experienced, not a "pop." Appreciate your suggestion to edit the thread to describe something I didn't experience though.

Yes, I didn't realize what was going on, having never experienced a squib, and tried chambering another round from a fresh magazine. When it wouldn't go into battery I didn't bang on the back of the slide to try and force the round in the chamber, I just dropped the mag, ejected the round that had been stripped, examined it for any weirdness that might cause it to not chamber, and not seeing any such weirdness, put it back in the mag, and tried it again. I'm a little slow, but after it wouldn't chamber the second time, it dawned on me that there might be a bullet in the throat.

Anyway, I appreciate the well wishers. This has for sure altered my thinking when it comes to malfunctions like this. While I don't shoot as much as some folks here, I did have tens of thousands of rounds down range without a squib before this happened. I wasn't expecting one, so it wasn't the first thing that came to mind when it occurred. Now I'll be more cognizant of it in the future, which was kinda the whole pint of the thread.

"Thumbs up THANKS for the Safety reminder=AAA+"
^^^Kind of hard to take the title of my post any other way??

" I have been hand-loading for some time, " Yeah, me too-since 1970. Do not know the "Round Count", but it has been a bunch.

For ME, just to try to figure this out:

No "Pop" would mean no primer detonation, and no powder burn.
How then did the projectile go forward past the case, and into the rifling of your G-20 barrel??
Were you able to recover the (projectile less) case that started the problem? I reviewed your original post and saw no mention of it???

For ME, just to think of what could of happened==mixed into your Factory Load 175gr. Win. Silvertip 10MM ammo, a short case, or possible .40 S&W case?? Undersized projectile, no neck tension on case, let the projectile go forward out of case upon striker of your G-20 hitting the primer??
^^^This should not have happened due to the fact that MOST Glock 10MM's will shoot .40 S&W's with a good extractor/extractor spring.

If you have an Extra heavy slide spring in your G-20, and poor neck tension on that one load, could the projectile been driven forward?? Should have still heard a "Pop", and lots of "Fresh" powder in your chamber??

To ME-For all of this to happen--Dead primer-case went forward-projectile went forward into the rifling, and not having LOTS of unburned powder in your chamber/barrel==Is more than I can imagine .

It was NOT my purpose to discredit: You, your shooting ability, your hand loading ability, or anything else. I just CANNOT see how a projectile can go forward without a primer detonation.
I would appreciate knowing the actual cause of your original post, due to the fact that I also shoot a G-20/G-40 in 10MM. 95% of my shooting is hand loads-Powder Coat, plated, jacketed, in that order.

The original "Fired" case would probably have all of the answers???...Bill.

 

[Sling10mm]

Billybob,

No hurt feelings..... it's an internet forum. Just don't like passive-aggressive type "recommendations." I appreciate your concern and suggestion on reviewing my range safety practices. I had never had a squib before, and had initially thought that the slide just didn't lock back after the last round. When I racked the slide and the empty ejected, it became even more of a mystery. If something even close to that happens in the future, I'll treat it as a squib until I know differently.

I'm sure the primer did detonate, I just didn't hear it. Maybe because of the ear muffs, maybe someone else shot at the same time.... I just don't know. I didn't hear it, so I didn't report it in the original post. The fired case is mixed in with the rest of the brass, but maybe it will have a different appearance (cleaner maybe?).

Anyway, I like the idea of weighing the rounds I have left, and will do that soon. In the mean time, I'll get to have some fun researching new carry ammo/loads. So far I have picked up some of the Hornady Critical Duty and SIG V-Crown.

 

[billybob44]

Good deal here....

Billybob,

No hurt feelings..... it's an internet forum. Just don't like passive-aggressive type "recommendations." I appreciate your concern and suggestion on reviewing my range safety practices. I had never had a squib before, and had initially thought that the slide just didn't lock back after the last round. When I racked the slide and the empty ejected, it became even more of a mystery. If something even close to that happens in the future, I'll treat it as a squib until I know differently.

I'm sure the primer did detonate, I just didn't hear it. Maybe because of the ear muffs, maybe someone else shot at the same time.... I just don't know. I didn't hear it, so I didn't report it in the original post. The fired case is mixed in with the rest of the brass, but maybe it will have a different appearance (cleaner maybe?).

Anyway, I like the idea of weighing the rounds I have left, and will do that soon. In the mean time, I'll get to have some fun researching new carry ammo/loads. So far I have picked up some of the Hornady Critical Duty and SIG V-Crown.

Great to hear that there was no damage done here-Either to you, or your firearm!!

Great idea also to weigh your remaining loads. You may?? also dis-assemble one of those Factory Loads to see how much the powder charge does weigh. That will give you an idea of what difference that you may be looking at??

Take care+good shooting+good loading...Bill.