Squirrel hunter killed

[Hookeye]

60+ degree angles.
Do take ground shots, later in season, the place I hunted one could see for a long ways and the rats would be on the sides of ravines where acorns rolled and collected.
Nice backstop.
Shotguns for squirrels is (IMHO) cheating (but depending on where one is hunting they might be the only tool to use).
It's supposed to be fun, the meat yield secondary.
With that, one can be even more selective on what types of shots they take.

 

[Hookeye]

A 40 gr .22rf bullet with deformed front will hit how hard in free fall?

FWIW the military did testing on .30 cal 150 gr stuff, of jacketed bullet and no damage. Free falling from a much taller height, coming down point first, they said there was enough force to possibly take somebody out of the fight, but to high probability not kill.

Aerodynamically superior- higher speed, concentrated load (fine tip/stronger material) and more momentum.............and it was marginal.

Now a .22 rf is 1/4 the weight, won't free fall from as high (less speed), and probably be deformed by even just a leafy canopy (softer material).

FWIW I shoot at nothing skylined. Good leafy canopy and out in the country, I'll pop em, at a steep angle of course.

BTW a CB is 29 gr. And they leave at 700 FPS.

 

[Hookeye]

I am not anti .22 rf for squirrels.
Just don't think the biped variety should pursue the quad.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Just don't think the biped variety should pursue the quad.

I have absolutely NO idea what this means

 

[hornadylnl]

I hunt squirrel with 25/06. If it wasn't safe, DNR would restrict it.

 

[Hookeye]

From this and other threads (here and elsewhere) it appears that many a gun owner is a bit lacking in the understanding pf physics.
Those not in the know might do well to avoid condemning others of more understanding.

If one doesn't know, ask for clarification.

And maybe, research it before making claims to the contrary.

Further, don't take your cousin's inlaw's neighbor's story to be 100% factual of an event and try to leverage that against science.

 

[Hookeye]

I hunt squirrel with 25/06. If it wasn't safe, DNR would restrict it.

The DNR might do better to restrict the reproductive capabilities of some license buyers

 

[IndyGunworks]

From this and other threads (here and elsewhere) it appears that many a gun owner is a bit lacking in the understanding pf physics.
Those not in the know might do well to avoid condemning others of more understanding.
.

I am not lacking in my understanding of physics.... Just because its not coming down w/ enough force to be considered "lethal" doesn't mean that it cannot injure someone Firing a .22 rifle at an upwards angle expecting the canopy to slow the bullet down enough or the terminal velocity of the round falling back to earth being slow enough to be considered "safe" I believe is a reach. Quite frankly I am a little concerned at how many people here consider it best practice.

 

[hornadylnl]

The DNR might do better to restrict the reproductive capabilities of some license buyers

DNR caliber restrictions are all about the safety of hunters.

 

[hornadylnl]

I am not lacking in my understanding of physics.... Just because its not coming down w/ enough force to be considered "lethal" doesn't mean that it cannot injure someone Firing a .22 rifle at an upwards angle expecting the canopy to slow the bullet down enough or the terminal velocity of the round falling back to earth being slow enough to be considered "safe" I believe is a reach. Quite frankly I am a little concerned at how many people here consider it best practice.

Maybe we can host an INGO shoot and see how many volunteers we can get to stand next to a 22 pointed straight up and start sending bullets up.

 

[sampo]

I'd show up for a INGO shoot with my .22!

 

[Hookeye]

Looked up the free fall V of hail based on diameter:

.39 inch is terminal V of 20 mph
3.1 inch is 110 mph.

Using 60 mph for simple math, I get 88 FPS.

Using that (88 FPS) for a 40 gr object, the KE is .69 ft lbs.

Of course there are other things that can factor in, but just wanted to put that out there for some idea of energy and speeds since too many think things go up at the same as they come down.

Just for giggles, lets say a #6 pellet (weight 2 grains) hits at 750 FPS.........that's a KE of 2.49 ft lbs. I dunno what speed they hit on low angle shots (starting V at 1300), but I took some at 30 degrees or so, around 100 yards. It stung.

Maybe of some merit in comparison, or not. Just tossing stuff out.

Wonder how much oomph stuff has when bouncing off steel. I bet quite a few IDPA IPSC guys have taken hits of more KE. Maybe substantially more, I dunno.

Worst I got was remnant .223 at an indoor range, 21 ft bounceback. Hot welt for a minute.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I think what you are missing is that NONE of that stuff matters. The issue is that your firing a bullet w/out KNOWING for a FACT where that bullet might end up. Its negligence, or irresponsibility in the least.

 

[Hookeye]

KNOWING for a FACT means you must be shooting into a sifted sandbank.

 

[IndyGunworks]

KNOWING for a FACT means you must be shooting into a sifted sandbank.

Indeed. I only shoot into backstops where I KNOW the bullet will stop, or if the bullet will continue past the backstop then it will still land on property that I rightfully own. I most definatly NEVER shoot into the air assuming that my round is so small that it probably wont hurt anyone.

 

[Hookeye]

You don't KNOW where your bullet will stop.

You might THINK you do.

In the field one could clip a leaf or branch and never even hit the backstop. You could also skip off something that is in a backstop (reason why I said sifted sand earlier).

It could possibly be argued that putting .22rf in free fall is actually safer, than taking ANY low angle shots, even towards backstops.

 

[Hookeye]

BTW, even if your bullet lands on property you "rightfully own", that doesn't mean somebody might not be back there.

 

[Hookeye]

You control the direction of your bullet to a certain extent.
After it leaves the muzzle you have ZERO CONTROL.
And since it doesn't go from muzzle to stop immediately...........there are things beyond your control that determine the bullet's final resting place.

So.........all of us are just best guessing it (as far as bullet resting place).

Even those who think they are a god.

 

[Hookeye]

Backstops are a GREAT idea.
But shooting at or even into one offers no 100 % guarantee of safety.
I think some folks mistake a chance of higher incident rate as also meaning more damage (per event).
I'm going to try to find more info on free fall and .22rf stuff.

Update: no luck to find what is min angle for free fall.

This says Mythbusters claimed only vertical to offer free fall, but that i think some lawyer induced commentary. I am more inclined to go with the comment somebody posted on the page after the article.

The falling bullet: myths, legends and terminal velocity | Forensic Outreach



I'm going to email Sierra and see what they say
I asked for return V and energy for 60-90 degree fired 40 gr .22rf HV (BC .145)

 

[Hookeye]

In my limited research I see that some studies (medical usually) say "falling bullets" when they have no damn idea if the bullets fell (free fall) or were fired at low angle departure.

They make rather specific claims based on an at best general view (that may not even be applicable). Go figure. Junk science for the sake of politics. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.