Stack-On 10 Gun Safe

[Saiga223]

I'm in the market for a new gun safe/storage cabinet and this one seems to be right in my price range.

Stack-On 10 Gun Safe

Anyone familiar with this one, it will be my first and I am trying to stay right around $300 or so. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Newbomb92]

I'd probably go for this one instead...That 10 gun safe looks way too small, especially if you have the long guns in your avatar.

Stack-On 19 Gun Deluxe Convertible Gun Safe - Dick's Sporting Goods

 

[DRob]

Safe capacity

Bear in mind that a "10 gun safe" will only hold 10 long guns if none of 'em are bolt guns, none of 'em have optics, and you don't mind banging 'em together putting 'em in and taking 'em out.

 

[Spot Me 2]

Bear in mind that a "10 gun safe" will only hold 10 long guns if none of 'em are bolt guns, none of 'em have optics, and you don't mind banging 'em together putting 'em in and taking 'em out.

Yep. Its more like a 5 gun safe. I have a 24 gun liberty and it only fits 10. Most have optics, but 3 don't. AR's take up a lot of room!

 

[Saiga223]

Wow, I guess I never thought about that. Yep, the ones in my avatar and a shotgun and a 9mm carbine would probably not fit in there comfortably. Looks like I may need to keep saving, ha ha! Thanks for the advice fellas, really helpful stuff!

 

[jdhaines]

I got one of the small lockable cabinets that could hold 18 I think. I only have a few at this point. It's sturdy, and only cost around $130 from Rural King on black friday. Found out once I opened it that it had a small pistol safe included in it. There are pictures of it in the reloading room pics thread under the reloading area. I figure none of my guns are collectible and can easily be replaced with insurance money so I don't care so much if they burn. I just want them to stay locked when I'm not using them, and to keep hoodlums out if they were to try to break in while we aren't around.

It fits my needs perfectly and the price was right. It's a Stack-On.

 

[gunman41mag]

Please don't buy a stack-on, I can break into it with a butter knife, save your pennys & buy a REAL safe

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Before you buy anything you need to watch this video.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M"]YouTube - Security on Sale Gun safe Prying video[/ame]

And read this.

Safes And RSC's, An Overview
I posted this in general because it's a very frequently discussed subject that's continually revisited. However, if it's felt that it belongs elsewhere, please move it.

Let’s take a look at Residential Security Containers, hereafter referred to as RSC’s, and safes. First, let me state that there is no legal provision that I know of that regulates what may, or may not, be called a safe. In other words, I can take Scotch Tape and business cards, tape them into a little box, put a pin across the corner, and legally sell it as a “safe”. Shame on you if you pay good money for it, but it’s an excellent example of caveat emptor.

The best, in my opinion, rater of security containers is Underwriter’s Laboratories. However, simply because a container has a U.L. label it does not mean you are looking at a true safe. Please be aware that there are several rating categories in the U.L. system. I’ll provide my synopsis of the pertinent areas, but it’s beyond the scope of this thread to quote the entire manual. Feel free to go to the official U.L. website & wade through the verbiage if you care to. However, also be aware that U.L. is the only tester that I know of that openly publishes their test parameters. And that’s a significant point when attempting to do an honest comparison of manufacturer’s claims.

The security categories I’ll be talking about are the RSC, construction, attack resistance, and thermal protection. Simply put, an RSC designation means that sheet metal has been used in the construction of the security container. Beyond that, the RSC label means that the container has been tested to resist physical attack by one person, using hand tools (commonly meant to mean a hammer and large screwdriver) with no lever length exceeding 18 inches, for 5 minutes. Many import units now will take the body sheet metal, bend it into the interior, fold it three or four times, & use that as the frame which the bolts lock up behind. What happens when you fold sheet metal? Rhetorical question, folding sheet metal weakens it. It’s possible to view an excellent example of this type of construction by accessing the YouTube video “Security On Sale”. Therein two young men flop an RSC on it’s back & pop the door in one minute and 42 seconds I think. A careful examination of the “crook’s” movement patterns will reveal that they obviously weren’t rehearsed. A frequently heard objection to the methodology of the YouTube video is that if the RSC were bolted upright, the “crooks” couldn’t have done what they did. Please. It’s true that if the RSC were upright, it would have taken them longer, but the point of the video is valid. A major reason I’d think that the RSC was flopped is that most people will sit through a couple of minutes of sales video, but literally won’t sit still for a ten minute video pitch. Nonetheless, no RSC, regardless of other considerations, is high-grade protection from physical attack.

U.L. will not rate a security container as a safe unless all six exterior surfaces are at least ¼” inch thick plate steel. Which brings us to construction ratings. A “B” rate safe will have, at a minimum, quarter inch plate used throughout its exterior construction. The better one’s will have a door of ½” thick steel plate. And the steel will not be mild rolled plate. Better “B” rated safes will use something like A36 high tensile tool steel for their construction. There are further construction ratings such as C, E, F, and beyond. A “C” rated unit will have 5 exterior surfaces of ½” plate and a 1” thick plate door. An “E” rated safe will have 1” thick exterior surfaces with the door being 1.5” thick. The “F” rated safe will incorporate a layer of manganese steel laminated in the exterior surfaces to deter torch attack. Note that the construction ratings of “B” etcetera are not directly comparable to attack resistance ratings of TL, TR, etc. However, careful examination of the two rating systems does allow justifiable conclusions to be drawn.

An attack rating label, such as TL15, certifies that the door will withstand an attempted forced opening by tools for 15 continuous minutes. That’s the door only. If a unit is rated as TL15 X 6, then the entire body of the safe (all six sides) is certified to withstand the attack for 15 minutes. The common ratings concerning tool attack are TL15 and TL30, for 15 and 30 minutes of successful resistance. A TR rating is a resistance to a torch attack. The same time and side parameters apply to the nomenclature. So, if you’re in possession of the TLTR30 X 6 safe, you’ve got one helluva unit. However, that type of unit usually carries a price tag so as to preclude ownership by private individuals. In other words, they are very expensive.

When it comes to thermal protection ratings for home use, the only one to pay any attention to is the U.L. one-hour certification. You will almost certainly run across several different “systems” if you go shopping for a “safe”. There’s the Omega Laboratories label, the Pyro 3000, the BTU certification, and others. Until you know the test parameters of each “system”, it’s impossible to draw any accurate comparisons. What’s more, the only tester that I know of that does publish the aforementioned parameters is Underwriters Laboratories. A thumbnail description of the U.L. process is this: The test safe goes into the furnace, the door is shut & the fire is lit. The one-hour test timer only starts when the furnace temperature rises to 1700 degrees f. At the end of the hour, anything that’s going to pass the test will have its internal test transponder reporting an interior temperature of something like 270 – 280 f. That’s not the end of the test however. The burn in the furnace is stopped, but the furnace remains sealed until it’s internal temperature falls to laboratory ambient, 68 f. At no time can the internal temperature of the test container rise above 350f for the entire test. The 350f figure is the temperature determined by U.L. that data is recoverable from good quality paper. As an aside, the paper quality parameters cover some few pages themselves. Not, “can’t put it down” reading.

When confronting other thermal rating figures, you should ask yourself some questions: “What’s the rise time to test temperature?” “Did the test period timer start when the gas was lit, or when test temperature was reached?” “Was the container placed in the test furnace in the upright position that it would be in my home?” “Did the test include the furnace cool-down time?” Until you know the answers to questions such as these, it’s just not possible to say that the container provides X number of minutes protection at Y temperature, and be able to draw a meaningful conclusion from the numbers.


OK, thermal protection is not rocket science. RSC’s use sheet metal for body construction & they will usually use either sheet rock, i.e. gypsum wallboard, or a foam filler for the insulating medium. Sometimes gypsum board sans paper will be called “fire rock”, don’t be fooled, its the same stuff. In any case, my point is that if you put thicker and denser material between the heat source & what you want saved, you get better protection with plate steel and concrete than with sheet metal and gypsum. The thermal protection offered by virtually all RSC’s is minimal in my experience.

When it comes to container locks, the only two real choices these days are digital, or manual combination. But, there are sub-categories that make substantial differences in both the reliability and protection you get when you buy. Many manual combination dial locks on import RSC’s are what is known as a wheel-pack unit. They are relatively easy to make, offer the three number combination most of us are familiar with, and cannot be told from exterior examination from a high quality unit such as a U.S. made LaGard or S&G. However, if you want the combination changed, the LaGard and Sargent Greenleaf units are made to allow that relatively quickly and easily. The import wheel-pack units are frequently very much a PIA to change the combination. Speaking as a professional locksmith, I will charge you more to change the combination on a low-tech wheel-pack than I will to do the same job on a quality unit that’s made to have it done. There are inherent limitations due to the mechanics of combination dials that absolutely should be adhered to. They are: Each number should be at least 10 digits from the next, and the final number should not lie in the 80-0-20 quadrant. In example, a combination of 30-20-30 is OK, but a combo of 05-10-95 is sure to cause problems. But, there are thousands of possible combinations available to the user within those limitations. On the other hand, wheel-pack units may only offer you a few (12?) possible combinations, depending on the way the thing is built. In any case, I’ll strongly suggest that no end user who has not been trained to do so attempt to change their own manual combination dial. It will cost you major money if you try it & don’t get it exactly right.

Electronic locks offer some very real advantages to manual combination dials. There are also some very real drawbacks. An electronic keypad offers superior speed of opening, by several hundred percent, over the typical manual combo dial. Usually, the electronic keypad lock is far more user friendly when changing the combination also. Just in case though, I’ll offer this common sense rule: Do it with the door open, check it at least three times before trying it with the door closed. Failure to do so will result in your locksmith’s being able to afford a new toy. Another caveat: Always make sure that the electronic lock you’re considering has 1. an external battery, and 2. a burn memory. Locks without a burn memory rely on a capacitor to supply electricity to the memory card while you change the battery. Take more time than the capacitor has current & you may very well have a problem. A lock that has a burned in memory can have the battery removed while you travel around the world & still retain your particular combination upon your return & re-installing the battery.

Oh, and concerns about EMP’s, and super-crooks with monster lap top computers who will plug in to your lock & crack the combo in 28 seconds max are just not real world concerns. If you’re spending time worrying about those, then please also give due consideration to giant meteors and Yellowstone blowing up.

There you have it, my overview of the subject of safes for home use. Please PM me if you have questions about something that wasn’t covered in the article. Thanks for taking the time to read.

In short, your mailbox is equally secure to a stackon metal box.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Oh yeah, also buy the biggest one you can, or you will be buying another soon. There will never be a shortage of things you want to keep secure. I now have THREE and need another....

 

[gunman41mag]

GOOD VIDEO, I have a LIBERTY SAFE, thats bolted to the foundation on the house.

 

[Apokalypsi]

The only thing with "real" safes is that not all of us can afford $2000+ for a basic, small model and need a safe as soon as financially possible. I know for me, it would take me about a year just to save up for the 45-gun Stack-On safe. It just isn't possible for some to buy good brands (especially part-time working college students )

 

[Chow40cal]

Wow...excellent excellent reading!

+1 to Throttlejockey for the knowledgeable input, and the time to post all that valuable information!

 

[gunman41mag]

The only thing with "real" safes is that not all of us can afford $2000+ for a basic, small model and need a safe as soon as financially possible. I know for me, it would take me about a year just to save up for the 45-gun Stack-On safe. It just isn't possible for some to buy good brands (especially part-time working college students )

I bought my LIBERTY SAFE from a guy that needed some $$$, I gave him $600, for it. The safe is a BIG piece of steel, it should last FOREVER. So buy a U S E D one

 

[Que]

Great thread and information. I've been looking and never considered buying for the future and not just the present. I'm with Apokalyspi, the good safes will cost a lot of money. I will continue to wait on one of you guys to sell one of your old ones or get something with the plan to guy-up in a year or so.

 

[samrothstein01]

The only thing with "real" safes is that not all of us can afford $2000+ for a basic, small model and need a safe as soon as financially possible. I know for me, it would take me about a year just to save up for the 45-gun Stack-On safe. It just isn't possible for some to buy good brands (especially part-time working college students )

I completely understand this, and had the same problem originally. However, other folks are correct, you can often find a good used or scratch and dent safe for much less than MSRP. My first safe was a $1800 safe that I purchased for ~$400 from a big box retail store. I had to drive to Cincy to get it, but was worth it. Be patient and dig for it. Don't shop at Dick's Sporting Goods, etc. Look on craigs list, be willing to pick it up, go to stores that stock them and see what they have on the floor, etc.

On the other hand, I would also start saving. A safe is an invaluable piece of household equipment, especially for items other than firearms. I quickly found that 30% of my safe storage capacity was being taken up by items that had nothing to do with firearms.

Forego that next AR or Glock purchase until you get a safe you are comfortable keeping it in. No sense in buying more firearms and accessories unless they can be reasonably protected. Time to re-prioritize where your "gun" money goes. (That's what it took for me).

I certainly would not buy a safe that you are confident is not what you want. Buying one just to "get by" in the short term cause you don't have money will end up costing you twice as much and will not do you any good because it probably lacks the inherent protection ability you are buying the safe for in the first place. You will pay $X for it, and maybe get half of $X back out of it. (Remember me indicating to shop for used...this is why!)

Take the $X you were going to spend and put it back as the first chunk of savings towards what you really want and think you need.

Also, as others have mentioned, most safes will hold ~ half of what they indicate, so plan big and plan for future growth. Inevitably you will need to upgrade or add safes, but start out being reasonable, i.e., if you own 6 rifles and 2 handguns already, you shouldn't start with a 10 gun safe. You have already outgrown it before you get it in the front door.

Just my

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I must admit, the quote in my earlier post came from a discussion I had with a professional "safe guy" when I bought my first one. His post is a sticky over at Oleg Volks forum. Mine aren't any better than the libertys or others that the video mentions but there are things you can do to make them more secure. For example, bolt it to the floor, try to put it in a corner and bolt it to the wall too....If it can't be easily moved, tipped or accessed it will improve the security tenfold. Make it "inaccessible" to the people that would try to break into it, if they can't get a pry bar to it, they can't pry it open....strategy, security is a multi-tiered process. I even have a tiny webcam hidden in my "safe room" pointed at the "safes" on a motion sensor, it sends the video directly to my email so even if they take my computer I still have the video of it. Qik | Record and share video live from your mobile phone is a good site to use rather than paying for software, it streams the video right to an off site server for free.... There are so many options out there to level the playing field and protect your investments...Even a game camera or two can work to your advantage as they aren't seen as highly valuable or easily turned to cash by a thief, they will likely be left behind.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Oh, also try to get one that allows the combination to be changed as they all don't. And try to get one that YOU can change without paying a locksmith $400. Stay away from electronic locks and biometrics....too many potential problems, simple is better. The more complex something is, the more potential for problems....example, before electric car windows, how many people had problems with their car windows not working?

 

[Saiga223]

That is awesome! Very informative. A lot more than I expected, but welcomed information nonetheless. Thank you very much! The main purpose of the safe is storage to keep my kids out of my gun stuff but security albeit not "top notch" is definitely an added bonus. I definitely plan on upgrading sooner than later, but for right now I need something to more or less conceal my artillery.

 

[cbop]

I have the Stack On 10 gun safe. I got a deal on it for around $200, if I remember correctly.

Is it the ultimate in security? Nope, it sure isn't but then again, what is? Can you get into it with a butter knife? Nope, that ain't happening either. Will this be the last safe I will ever need or buy? Nope again. But I also note that people who have much bigger, better & expensive safes often have more than one as well so it is very likely whatever safe I have, I will be eventually getting a larger one and possibly another after that. So, often the logic behind the 'that safe is junk... get one like mine instead' crowd makes as much sense as telling someone buying their first car to get a school bus instead because they will outgrow the sporty little 2 seater. I may just start my safe collection smaller than yours but the race is not over, if we were racing.

The most important question is whether my guns are safer now in their cramped little home than they would be sitting in a closet while I save for the next bigger model and then the one after that? Yes, they most certainly are and even with the next larger model or even the safe whose name is typed in all capitol letters and whispered in hushed tones, you are never completely safe. Any safe, like any bank or nuclear weapon facility in certain mid east countries, any security feature can be compromised, given enough time, tools and determination. While saving my pennies for a bigger safe, if all I can afford right now is this Stack On, I am still beating the odds on the typical burglary. I suppose I could eventually save enough pennies for the fancy safe but then, how many pennies will I need to get a safe to put my cutting tools, torches, pry bars, grinders, files and other tools that can eventually breach the largest and most expensive safe?

Right now, I have more handguns than rifles so I have plenty of room. In my case, the 10 gun rating is irrelevant since I could stack dozens of handguns in there and then make posts how my safe is bigger than your safe.

To the OP, if this is the safe you can afford at the moment and you need a way to secure your weapons, buy it and pat yourself on the back.... there will be other safes down the road, if needed, they are not going to quit making them

 

[junglerogue]

If you decide to go the Stackon route, be redundant with your locks, i.e. use the cable locks that manufacturers provide with all firearms. One more thing between the bad guys and your goods. If it's not your primary go to gun, consider separating the bolts/firing pins from the firearms, just my .02's.