Stacking your mags - alternating rounds in your magazine

[BehindBlueI's]

The only time I do anything like this is in my farm gun. Its a single action Colt clone chambered in .44 magnum. The first two cylinders are snake shot. The next three are HPs. The one under the hammer is empty (not sure if the gun is drop safe, ain't testing it).

I get copperheads and the occasional water moccasin. Snake shot works very well. I also get the occasional wild dog (although now that I don't have chickens that's a rarity). Snake shot will discourage them, but HPs will hammer the message home. I'm not real worried about human predators. The only murder in the area in my lifetime was a domestic, and you'd have a LOOONG way to sneak to take me by surprise.

 

[wolfman]

i'd have a full tube of shot in a pump shotgun and throwing in a slug or buck through the open breach is the only consideration i'd give to changing up loads.

What size of shot? Anything smaller than #4 buck and you risk your own safety by having to take multiple shots to stop a threat. Granted bird shot, (anything smaller than #5) can kill at extreamly close range, if placed right, but why risk not stopping the threat by using a more appropriate sd load?

 

[ru44mag]

What size of shot? Anything smaller than #4 buck and you risk your own safety by having to take multiple shots to stop a threat. Granted bird shot, (anything smaller than #5) can kill at extreamly close range, if placed right, but why risk not stopping the threat by using a more appropriate sd load?

I could be wrong...but I thought he was referring to hunting small game, like rabbit or squirrel...and then a deer popped up in front of him...and he needed to fill his tag.

 

[Ebrueckmann]

In response to Wolfman, I recently read an article which referenced a few occasions in which an intruder was shot with bird shot in the chest and was still walking around when EMS got there. So I question the effectiveness of any bird shot as an effective way to stop and truly motivated intruder. That said I do keep my SD shotgun loaded with two rounds of #4 steel shot followed by two 00 buck and then a copper solid slug. My logic is that if the first two rounds don't stop the attack then I have the ability to quickly end the confrontation. The safety of my roommate also comes to mind, and in the event of an intruder I would think that the first two rounds would at least wake him, and hopefully he would take cover. I realize that my logic may be flawed but Im willing to hear constructive criticism.

 

[TheAutomator]

Why not just quickly end the confrontation on the first shot or two (hopefully) instead of sitting there pumping round after round at the guy?

I think it's foolhardy to save your 'good ammo' until 3 rounds into a gun fight. You may not get 3 rounds.

 

[Ebrueckmann]

So would you recommend just five copper solids? Because at my personal SD range from my bed to my door, which is approximately 9 ft, the 00 buck isnt going to open up at all.

 

[SaintsNSinners]

I stack my mags...... PDX1, HST, PDX1, HST



but thats because I cant decide which one I like better. I figure I will find out on that fateful day I actually have to use it

 

[SafetyOff2A]

 

[HoughMade]

If the first shot doen't stop an attack, what makes anyone so sure they will get a chance at a second or third shot?

Best stopping round first, second, last and all.

 

[the1kidd03]

I completely understand different types of bullets for different situations, but the odds that you have that particular bullet in the exact situation is low.

Your top round is made for penetration (metals, wood etc) but you're in a situation where over penetration matters. oops, better rack that slide.

I think Hornady has the best type of bullet as MAC sort of showed in his video (in my opinion). I'll still carry Critical Duty

I'm becoming a fan of the DRT stuff as well.

 

[tradertator]

Stacking the feed device of a firearm makes absolutely no sense to me. I have heard of loading a few hollow points at the top of a magazine, and then flat nosed penetrator type rounds in the bottom. Logic being that the first few rounds in a gun fight are often up close, and then people tend to hide behind things afterwards. Do I think that's a good strategy? Ehhhh...., probably not. Murphy's Law taken into consideration, K.I.S.S. I want something that will make a small hole going in, and make a pot-pie sized hole coming out, and with as little over penetration as possible. However, I can say from experience that a flat nosed bullet like a wad cutter cuts a tremendously nasty wound channel, because I've seen it done to deer via contender / 357 wadcutter. Where as a round nosed bullet will slip past bone, a flat one will break and push it through the meat.

 

[88E30M50]

The idea of stacking shotgun loads in order of their effectiveness in a self defense situation kind of reminds me of the Condition Butterscotch Carry video. If I ever am in a position where I have to pull the trigger at another human being, it's because either someone I care about or myself is on the verge of getting killed or bodily harmed. Each and every round fired needs to count to the max. Imagine you are facing a 250# attacker with a baseball bat. If you can only get one shot off before you take a hit to the head from his bat, chances are that if the first shot was birdshot, the second shot will be used by him to finish you off. For me, each and every round needs to be the golden BB if possible.

 

[sht4brnz]

What size of shot? Anything smaller than #4 buck and you risk your own safety by having to take multiple shots to stop a threat. Granted bird shot, (anything smaller than #5) can kill at extreamly close range, if placed right, but why risk not stopping the threat by using a more appropriate sd load?

My house is pretty small with loved ones behind every wall, so over penetration is a big concern. As a bedside gun, when i'm abruptly awaken it takes a moment to get my bearings and focus. At close range, shooting from the hip I feel confident #6 shot and the sound of a blast will change someone's mind, at the least stun them long enough to shoulder, aim, and place one in the head. If there's distance, there's time to load something heavier (buck/slug).

WooHoo 50 posts

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Thought from the ignorant here. With a marginal round, such as a .380, where there is much debate over whether or not a HP has enough penetration or not, and the FMJ does not make a large enough wound channel. I alternate HP and FMJ every other round. I figure if I ever have to use it, I will probably fire several rounds to the chest.

You might fire several rounds, but under stress and once both individuals start to move landing those additional rounds becomes more and more problematic. An FBI study in the late 80s showed that 2-3 torso hits is about as good as anyone does with a handgun before the fights over, regardless of how many rounds they actually fire. In short, rounds fired early in a gun fight are statistically more likely to hit than rounds fired later in a gun fight.

As I said in your other post, I don't have a solid recommendation for .380 ammo. I don't own one, I don't keep up with it, I'm not putting the research in. If underpenetration is a concern, remember a few caveats. Underpenetration will get you killed, and expansion is worthless without sufficient penetration. Ideally, you want both, but if there is no round out there that demonstrates it has both qualities, weight your ammo selection toward penetration.

The point being, you want each of your bullets to be a reliable penetrator because that might be the only bullet that hits, regardless of how many you fire. If HPs won't do the job by themselves, they shouldn't make an appearance in your magazine anywhere. If they are sufficient for the job, then they should be every round.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

The only time I do anything like this is in my farm gun. Its a single action Colt clone chambered in .44 magnum. The first two cylinders are snake shot. The next three are HPs. The one under the hammer is empty (not sure if the gun is drop safe, ain't testing it).

I get copperheads and the occasional water moccasin. Snake shot works very well. I also get the occasional wild dog (although now that I don't have chickens that's a rarity). Snake shot will discourage them, but HPs will hammer the message home. I'm not real worried about human predators. The only murder in the area in my lifetime was a domestic, and you'd have a LOOONG way to sneak to take me by surprise.

This strikes me as the only really good reason for stacking. When I go out to Wyoming to a friend's ranch to chase cows I carry two shot cartridges as the first rounds up in my two hoglegs that I wear while in the saddle, with the remaining three being my usual mankillers. Two legged vermin are pretty well non-existent that far out, but rattlesnakes are common and troublesome.

 

[wolfman]

I could be wrong...but I thought he was referring to hunting small game, like rabbit or squirrel...and then a deer popped up in front of him...and he needed to fill his tag.

The OP is about self defense, not hunting.

 

[JetGirl]

Let's talk about the most important factor here:

Why was this in written form and not awesomely wicked kewl video?!?

 

[rvb]

I don't "stack" mags (I first thought this thread was about ways to store them on a shelf), but I have considered doing so. I'm not necessarily thinking about different uses against cover (car doors, etc) or concerns of overpenetration, or different rounds for different situations, etc, but just plain penetration into an attacker.

I read things like this:

All rounds penetrated less than 1" ... none of the rounds caused any life threatening injuries. ... The subject was wearing a down jacket at the time of the incident.

from: http://concealedcarryholsters.org/wp-content/files/FBI-Analysis-on-PA-Police-Shootout.pdf (warning: graphic)

... and I wonder if we don't rely too much on our wonderammo. I have seen evidence of jhps expanding before getting to a target on even things like small brush. I'll see if I can dig up my picture of a target hit by a round that expanded on a ~1/8" twig. We can't expect a round that has expanded before hitting the target to penetrate adequately, can we? Seems in the link provided above, ball might have served the officers better in that circumstance, no? Would you have thought a down jacket capable of saving your life from multiple .40 jhps?

So while I don't currently "stack," I wouldn't say it's wrong to do so, so long as you understand WHY (and aren't trying to count rounds in order to use the "right round for the situation."). If just "stacking" in order to increase the odds of stopping the attacker, and if all the rounds feed reliably, I won't bad-mouth the idea. If a couple rounds of quality jhp cant adequately penetrate a down jacket w/o pre-expanding, then a couple of ball rounds following behind might stop the aggressor.... Lots of "ifs" in that example, but stacking the mag might really be "stacking the deck" in your favor.

-rvb

ps. here is the picture of the expanded jhp hitting the target after hitting a small twig:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/42914-jhp-expansion-zeros.html

 

[PapaScout]

I load my mags with the same ammo. Only variance I have is 00-buck in the shotgun and slugs available on the stock if needed.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Even in my dreams I would not stack my mags or shotgun, it just does not make any sense. My friend used to do this
until we had a VERY long and drawn out heated discussion on this. His point on his firearm was "If I have to shoot
through a car door". It took me taking him to a junk car and placing a piece of plywood inside the door and popping
a 115gr JHP through the door and plywood to change his mind.

On his shotgun, I had him call his father who back in the mid 50's was a Detroit LEO, his dad exclaimed, "What are
you trying to do, **** him off?" That was all it took for him to swap out the birdshot for #4 buck.