Stand your ground laws vs Bullying

[Avigdor]

We have heard a lot about the Stand Your Ground laws with respect to the death of Trayvon Martin. At the same time we are constantly hearing about bullying in our schools. Has anyone put together that the "Thug Lifestyle" that is glorified in hip hop and rap is bullying? Or that the only way to deal with a bully is stand up to him?

Has anyone seen "Grand Torino" with Clint Eastwood? Great illustration of standing up to those living the thug lifestyle. That the thugs were bullies whose greatest goal was to get everyone else to back down.

Notice that the thugs get in each other's face. No being polite. Why then should we stand down?

 

[griffin]

I personally believe that bullies should get the ever-living **** beat out of them. I don't believe in proportional force.

At one time even the US did, too. We firebombed Dresden and Tokyo. The women in Tokyo wore 'air-raid turbans' around their heads, and the heat would ignite those turbans like a wick on a candle. We killed more people in that firebomb raid than we did dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

But now, no, we no longer believe in disproportional force and peace through strength.

"We are going to have peace even if we have to fight for it." - Eisenhower.

/rant

 

[Avigdor]

I personally believe that bullies should get the ever-living **** beat out of them. I don't believe in proportional force.

At one time even the US did, too. We firebombed Dresden and Tokyo. The women in Tokyo wore 'air-raid turbans' around their heads, and the heat would ignite those turbans like a wick on a candle. We killed more people in that firebomb raid than we did dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

But now, no, we no longer believe in disproportional force and peace through strength.

"We are going to have peace even if we have to fight for it." - Eisenhower.

/rant

What we do at a national level if reflective of how we live our lives at the personal level. Thus we teach kids to avoid conflict, to run away, to have an "authority" deal with bullies then we have kids being bullied. If we teach kids to stand up for themselves, to "stand their ground", bullies back off.

That attitude then produces adults who back down against thugs (adult bullies). And a nation that lets every two bit nation push them around.

If you have not noticed, we have an epidemic of bullying in our country. Not just kids but thugs on the streets (ie Trayvon Martin who seemed to be into the "Thug Lifestyle" even though his parents and the press are hidding that fact).

And the world is filled with thugs. Too many examples, from pirates to rogue nations to Russia and Iran.

However we have too many old men, as exampled in the movie "Grand Torino", who would rather die than be pushed around. The old may yet save the young.

 

[Avigdor]

I personally believe that bullies should get the ever-living **** beat out of them. I don't believe in proportional force.

At one time even the US did, too. We firebombed Dresden and Tokyo. The women in Tokyo wore 'air-raid turbans' around their heads, and the heat would ignite those turbans like a wick on a candle. We killed more people in that firebomb raid than we did dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

But now, no, we no longer believe in disproportional force and peace through strength.

"We are going to have peace even if we have to fight for it." - Eisenhower.

/rant

The problem was that we used force against those who were bullies. Does using excessive force make you worst? Or is it the best tactic?

Taking on a nation is no different than standing up to a thug like Trayvon Martin, you use the force necessary to make them back off and think very seriously about ever doing something like that again. We not only forced both Germany and Japan into complete surrender but we also made an example of them.

If some tries to push me around, or even if I come on some punks pushing someone around, I will give them a chance to backoff. Then I use whatever force needed to "educate" them.

 

[edporch]

As far as today's schools go, they handle the bully issue wrong.

When I was a kid going to school in the 60's and early 70's, teachers had an awareness of what was going on with their students.

When a kid was getting bullied or harassed, the school usually let the kids solve it themselves within reason.

ONLY if a kid being bullied was unable to defend himself or was overwhelmed did the school step in.

I saw MANY cases where a guy had enough and slugged his harasser.
The teacher would usually just say something like "hey, haven't you got anything better to do? sit down!"
And that would be it.

It's this so-called "zero tolerance" stuff that has hurt kids, because punishing the victim for defending himself is ridiculous!

 

[handgun]

I actually wonder if suicides are up now due to bullying and teens not being able to stand their ground.

Now if you punch a bully. The bully has rights.. and probably in the hood this will turn into the bully wacking you in a parking lot.. or a gang style beat down.

 

[Double T]

Suicides are up because kids are self entitled wankers.

O I didn't get my way, I'm leaving...


Seriously, political correctness is killing the nation. Bullies suck, but it's pretty much survival of the fittest right? I was the guy stepping in for the little guy in the locker room, fist fighting; and the PE teacher let it go til I slammed the kids head in the locker. Then we were both walked out of different doors.

Today, I would be in cuffs and the bully would be seen as a victim.

 

[Expat]

I doubt Truman would have gone to the UN after 9/11

 

[Bond 281]

I've said it before. Bullying builds character. I mean, how can you learn to stand up for yourself if you've never had to do so before?

 

[Wreaver]

Told my kid the same thing my pops told me. If you're justified in defending yourself I will back you 100%.

 

[Expat]

Told my kid the same thing my pops told me. If you're justified in defending yourself I will back you 100%.

Heck, I the old days parents told their kids, if you don't stick up for yourself you'll get another licking' when you get home

 

[HighStrung]

I actually wonder if suicides are up now due to bullying and teens not being able to stand their ground.

^^^^^^(THIS)^^^^^^

If (when my kids are old enough) my kids stand up for themselves I will back them, and I hope that they do. As much as we want to pretend that it doesn't happen, in some way shape or form, most people had to deal with some bull crap at some point in time in their life, and we had to learn how to deal with it or to stop it. Point is, people in general aren't always nice. If they don't learn it as an adolesent, they learn about it as an adult with less life experience to help learn from.

 

[griffin]

It's this so-called "zero tolerance" stuff that has hurt kids, because punishing the victim for defending himself is ridiculous!

Amen! Exactly!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

We're talking about "projection" again here, combined with the fact that schools don't want to be held liable for allowing fighting - or any other potential harm - involving students. Progressives take the utopian view that any individual will respond to sweetness and reason; they refuse to recognize that some folks are just plain cussed and others are searching for limits. Bullies NEED to be countered strongly in order to realize that everyone is vulnerable and everyone can be caused to experience the consequences of their actions.

 

[Avigdor]

We're talking about "projection" again here, combined with the fact that schools don't want to be held liable for allowing fighting - or any other potential harm - involving students. Progressives take the utopian view that any individual will respond to sweetness and reason; they refuse to recognize that some folks are just plain cussed and others are searching for limits. Bullies NEED to be countered strongly in order to realize that everyone is vulnerable and everyone can be caused to experience the consequences of their actions.

Just understand that we are not just talking about bullies in grade school. We are also talking about thugs, street punks who push people around. Kids who get in your face for the kicks of making you back down. Criminals who get protection money (form of bullying on adults).

And it is rogue nations, like so much of the Islamic world, where being a thug, a bully, is a way of life.

 

[straid]

I personally believe that bullies should get the ever-living **** beat out of them. I don't believe in proportional force.

Like this?

Chubby Kid Power Slams Bully - Funny Video :: KillSomeTime.com

 

[IndyDave1776]

Like this?

Chubby Kid Power Slams Bully - Funny Video :: KillSomeTime.com

Good find! I bet the little s**t though twice before signing up for a rematch!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Just understand that we are not just talking about bullies in grade school. We are also talking about thugs, street punks who push people around. Kids who get in your face for the kicks of making you back down. Criminals who get protection money (form of bullying on adults).

And it is rogue nations, like so much of the Islamic world, where being a thug, a bully, is a way of life.

Agreed. The principle is the same, whatever the brand of bully. The PC/Progressive bullies think they can get away with pushing folks around because they usually get away with it. So too with criminal organizations, terror groups and rogue nations. Libya is a great example of what happens to a "bully nation" when another one stands up to their tactics. After Ghaddafi got his house bombed by us, he was very quiet on the international scene for the rest of his life. Iraq under Sadaam Hussein was a bully to many nations until we finally got tired of it and his threats and did his regime in. We may not exactly be pleased with the next Iraqi regime, but it's very unlikely they will be a threat to their neighbors anytime soon.

Israel is just like the little kid who's being bullied in school by the school athletic hero; doesn't matter what the guy does to Israel, if he fights back, HE's the problem, not the ones who've been hitting him day after day.

 

[Mosinowner]

One time a guy pantsed me at a football game and I punched him in the face guess who got in trouble. THIS GUY. IMHO Anyone who is a jerk deserves to be punched in the face.

 

[IndyDave1776]

One time a guy pantsed me at a football game and I punched him in the face guess who got in trouble. THIS GUY. IMHO Anyone who is a jerk deserves to be punched in the face.

That sorry excuse for a civilized human being certainly deserved that and more. I would say that a good beating would have been in order.