Star Wars Episode VII Discussion With Spoilers

[Ericpwp]

After rewatching Phantom through Jedi + bonus discs on Blu-ray, I saw it in 3d imax. I liked it. My wife felt sick and stopped watching half way through. I remember feeling sick at other 3d imax movies, but not this one.

I'm not a movie buff, but I am a Star Wars fan. If there is one more comic book caracter made into a movie... I don't even mind I-III anymore. Those were hard to please because everyone knew what was going to happen.

There were a lot of changes to the story line as it went when they made the original, so I'm not going to spend time guessing who is what in the upcoming films.

It felt to me like it was made by fans trying to do the original justice. Yes there were a lot of parallels , it really hit me when they walked into the cantina, but I just took it for what it was.

I enjoyed being brought back to that galaxy far far away again. I will probably see it again in the theater, non 3d if the wife comes with, and I can't wait for the follow ups.

 

[3steps]

Just saw the movie. I am so disappointed.
Who's the dude with the map?
Why is there a map?
What has happened in the last 30 years?
Leia and Hans poor relationship explanation and emotionless dialog?
Hold a blaster to a middle management storm trooper, she shuts down the shields, nobody can turn them back on, on to the next scene?
R2D2 zoned out on Prozac?
If Luke screws up and then RUNS AWAY, why does anyone think he is going to be of any value in the future?

So disappointed.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

My son (13) and I went to see it today. I'm not a big fan of theaters, but it was certainly worth the matinee cost of 7$ per ticket.
He was still too young to go to theaters for episode III, and I hadn't seen I or II in a theater. He discovered Star Wars when I bought a box set when he was around 6 or 7. And like any sane child, he took to it with glee.

On one hand, it was a pretty cool experience. It certainly makes for a great theater experience, and I think for him, this was almost like when I watched episode IV as a kid. Just 'special'. That maybe be clouded by the parallels with IV though.

He commented on it being parallel, but didn't seem bothered by it. The dejavu story line bothered me more. I wasn't fond of Han dying, but then again, I didn't expect old characters to be sticking around the new story line long either. I enjoyed experiencing Han's raw banter and humor again. It was nostalgic.

We discussed where we thought it might go next... Rey being Luke's daughter... Luke not wanting any part of it... maybe training her or something. Not sure where they're going to get another villain if all the jedi were slaughtered, but I'm not a fan of this kid. Should've kept the mask on instead of removing any credulity when he took it off.

But the experience, and 'father son bonding' as we both watched something new in the star wars story for the first time together, will likely mean we'll go to the theaters to watch the next one as well.

 

[Joe G]

Anyone else think this when you saw Ackbar?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Billie D. has not aged well at all.

Did you see Carrie, before she was cast? She was a hot mess. If she can do it, so can Williams.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Did you see Carrie, before she was cast? She was a hot mess. If she can do it, so can Williams.

Unfortunately for her, she was the product of a life spend from birth onward immersed in the Hollywood culture.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

Unfortunately for her, she was the product of a life spend from birth onward immersed in the Hollywood culture.

I wish I had that excuse.

 

[Woobie]

Not much more than gossip, probably, but here you go:

Billy Dee Williams To Cameo in Star Wars: Episode 8? - moviepilot.com

A Lando cameo may be in the works for VIII. I kind of hope it will be in a flashback to before Han gets skewered so those two can go at it. I always enjoyed their back and forth.

 

[churchmouse]

Did you see Carrie, before she was cast? She was a hot mess. If she can do it, so can Williams.

She has fallen apart in her "Age"

I saw Billie in a TV show not long ago and like anyone he has aged.

 

[dvd1955]

... but it was certainly worth the matinee cost of 7$ per ticket...

Hope that was for 3D, or else you paid too much! $3.99 for regular matinee in Kokomo.

Suppose anyone associated with the movie scans the millions of comments like these to look for ideas for the next two episodes? A lot of people didn't like episodes 1 to 3, and this was certainly closer to what made Star Wars great to begin with, even with the rehashed plots and scenes, so someone must be listening.

 

[EOD Guy]

Anyone else think this when you saw Ackbar?

I was expecting a plug for "Admiral Ackbar Cereal"!
[video=youtube;oQljzQ_FpUE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQljzQ_FpUE[/video]

 

[tatic05]

Everyone complaining about not knowing what happened the past thirty years, or the abilities of Rey and Kylo are killing me. No one knew much about Luke or Vader after episode 4, but yet everyone talks about how much they loved it. Maybe everyone was just had really high hopes going into the movie and expecting to have everything answered. I think they movie did a great job to set up the trilogy and it gave up just enough info to make people come up with all these theories, which I think is a plus. It followed some of episode 4, which is true, but you can say the same thing for episode 1.

 

[Woobie]

Yeah, the unanswered questions don't bother me. There's just too much history to cram into 2 hours, even if you don't try to tell the story of episode VII. But while The Phantom Menace had some parallels with IV, it is nowhere near on the level that VII is with IV. If Disney didn't have the Star Wars rights, and had changed all the names, we would be calling this plagiarism of A New Hope.

 

[Ericpwp]

I heard on the radio that Billie D was not all that with it these days.

I do remember seeing him in a commercial for something recently, so that is promising.

Carrie Fisher looked horrible imo. Getting old is fine, but she had some bad doctoring.

 

[JTScribe]

I heard on the radio that Billie D was not all that with it these days.

I do remember seeing him in a commercial for something recently, so that is promising.

Carrie Fisher looked horrible imo. Getting old is fine, but she had some bad doctoring.

Strange, he had a cameo on Modern Family and was pretty good.

New Year's Eve with Billy Dee Williams Video | Modern Family

 

[Woobie]

I wasn't as bothered by the aging. It happens. Now her voice really caught me off guard when she first spoke. In the originals she had a fairly pleasant speaking voice. Now she sounds like she smoked 3 packs a day for the last 30 years. I was waiting for her to hack up a ball of tar.

 

[JettaKnight]

J.J. Abrams.

He went super nostalgic with Star Trek, well past the point of being comical. So many chance encounters, rehashed relationship, etc. So going into this I knew what to expect. There was a TON of nods to the past (e.g. chess board) that were there, but not dwelt on, so that was good.

But, nothing could prepare me for the rehash of Episode IV I was about to experience. Kut said a lot of this, but it bears repeating.

• Whiny kid on a desert planet with relationship issue.
• Droid found in dessert with secret plan.
• Ship that has more problems than a 2001 Pontiac, yet seems to always pull the impossible escape when in a clutch.
• Solo has ganster problems.
• Seedy bar filled with bizarre creatures.
• Leia / Han relationship issues.
• Evil, giant orb that shoot a powerful beam.
• Said orb has easily exploitable flaw, once spec-ops turns off a shield.
• Fat guy stuffed in an XWing.
• Rag-tag group of rebels win against well organized overwhelming odds.
• A sage is killed in the end.

Now, admittedly, some of those things have to be there. Hey, who wants to see the underdog lose? But really J.J., this is as creative as you can get?

What I liked:

• The acting; very well done and well cast. The characters are all very real and likable. (No JarJar here)
• Action scenes felt real and were not tiring. I gave up on the Hobbit because the action scenes like that one with dwarves in tubs going down rapids was so long, so unbelievable that it just soured my whole feeling. I mean come on, I like a fight where the good guy beats the odds, but the law of averages has to catch up sooner or later.
• Muppets and models, not computers and animation.
• Diverse locations.
• Max Von Sydow
• Not cartoonish, a la jumping yoda.
• Little attempt to explain the politics and history (more on this below).
• Han dies. Someone important has to die, that's just how life is; otherwise you get Ewoks and Gungans.
• Carrie Fisher. I don't care that she's old or gained weight; so have I. Seeing here was unexpected for me and a delight.

What I didn't like:

• The previews; this set me in a bad mood.
  • Three Disney kids previews.I don't have kids. I don't like that pablum.
  • Then the crap: The Fifth Wave, Superman v. Batman, Some brainless XMen (another one?!). I swear that I saw a scene of the Golden Gate bridge being destroyed in each movie.
• J.J. rehash treatment.
• How is that the rebel and First Order bases are within a five minute commute of each other? How is it that neither party had prior knowledge of the other given the proximity and overt operations? They never ran into each other at Appleby's?
• How is that Rey is an instant Jedi badass? Is it the situation that forces her to realize her powers? I'm going to chalk up the sabre battle to KR's injury handicapping him.

What's the deal with the politics of the Star Wars universe?
Do I have this synopsis right?

1. There was the Old Republic
   • 1,000+ years of a unicameral government with senators who don't seem to have a consistent purpose, method of election, constituency, etc.
   • In one case there's a queen - who's elected.
   • There's Jedis that run around the galaxy acting as enforcers of trade or Stasi or something...
2. The republic is overthown by a coup and replaced by a hawkish dictatorship.
3. Within generation or two, this dictatorship makes some unwise military investments (twice!) and is overthrown by rebels who exploit the shoddy designs of some unnamed dept. of offense contractor.
4. The rebels don't seem to have what it takes to re-establish a popular government, and a new national party arises with the same ideology as the dictatorship of the very recent past (circa 25 years). This right wing faction is able to amass a massive, well organized, well funded military faction at an alarmingly fast rate. Perhaps this is due to Luke's inability to manage a dojo training a cadre of Jedis meant to snuff out any potential right wing activity.
5. Within a generation the re-established senate, presumably using the flawed constitution of the Old Republic, is in shambles and a new leftist rebellion force has assembled in the jungles and is engaged in guerrilla warfare with the dominate right wing forces.
6. The right wing forces kill all senators in one night then institute a shock and awe campaign against the rebels.
7. Apparently, the same military bureaucracy that failed in the past with military infrastructure planning is in this current regimes hierarchy and, in a bit of pork barrel politics, gets a bloats, poorly validated, unnecessary item in the budget. The result proves to be disastrous.

None of this makes sense.

 

[Super Bee]

I wasn't as bothered by the aging. It happens. Now her voice really caught me off guard when she first spoke. In the originals she had a fairly pleasant speaking voice. Now she sounds like she smoked 3 packs a day for the last 30 years. I was waiting for her to hack up a ball of tar.

This right here.

It did not bother me a bit how Carrie had aged or gained weight, heck she was 17 when she filmed Star Wars. . . and I dont look like how I did when I was 17 either. It was the fact she sounded like Dorothy off The Golden Girls.

 

[T.Lex]

Thanks for bringing up the political side of it, as I've always found that interesting, too. (As a sidenote, it is interesting to also overlay what was happening in US/World politics when the movies were in production.)

So in Phantom Menace, you had the Galactic Republic (ostensibly the Good Guys), who had the good Jedi as political operatives. The Trade Federation - a bunch of militant capitalists - strong arming peaceful planets for economic gain. But, they had certain political allies within the establishment itself. Basically, there was corruption at the top, helping the corrupt friends of the corrupt politicians. The corrupted were also using the Jedi's "particular set of skills" to unwittingly help the corruption.

Then in Attack of the Clones, it is kinda more of the same. Because the Republic was too big and bureaucratic, and corrupt (possible cause/effect there), a bunch of disgruntled systems broke away to form the Confederacy. Of course, the primary systems are also pretty capitalistic. Anyway, the Confederacy separatists are the bad guys, and have bad guy meanies to do the dirty work. The Jedi, still dedicated to the Republic, go to fight the Confederacy. The Republic uses clones and the Confederacy/Separatists use droids. Because people buy droids. So there's revenue to be had. Because of the war, the Republic passes "emergency powers" that make the chancellor an emperor. Thus was born the Empire (eventually).

In Revenge of the Sith, things get interesting. The Confederacy is destroyed. Peace is imposed. Since there's peace, politics is decentralized to regional governors and there's no need for a Senate. Systems' Riyeets and all. The new emperor is able to pin a palace coup attempt on the Jedi, and order their execution. Many die. A couple prominent survivors went into exile after depriving a father of his children because they didn't like his politics.

Then, in a New Hope, it turns out there is a Rebel Alliance. This group apparently wants to reconstitute the Senate. They are fighting the Empire because that's what rebels do. The politics is sketchy, but basically the peace-inducing totalitarianism does not sit well with some. Oh, and with most dictatorships, there's a thriving black market.

Empire Strikes Back is politically meaningless, IMHO. The empire is imperial and keeps trying to chip away at an unconventional insurgency. They have big hammers, and no interest in hearts and minds.

But Return of the Jedi creates a political problem. The Emperor is personally defeated... but... what happens to the bureaucracy? It seems to me that the Rebels were unable to quickly start governing the machination, so there was probably anarchy. But, there were enough imperial leaders left with the right connections for a charismatic leader, with help from the previous establishment, to come to wield great power.

That gives us The Force Awakens.

My knowledge of the EU is limited, so some of this could be wrong, but that's my take.

 

[historian]

Actually JK, I was just wondering the same thing.

There are three actors (First Order, New Republic, and Rebellion). Somehow the New Republic can't fight the first order, so they ignore the Rebellion (even though many Sr. Members of the old Rebellion who should be in the New Republic are back with the Rebellion). It is confusing.