Stealing my generator...providing food and heat for my family ?

[E5RANGER375]

I'd still call 911 to get your version of events on the record.

I'd have my wife call as I went out. I'd be visibly armed. I'd tell them to get off my property NOW.

What they do at that point determines your next move.

this!

and visibly armed to me would be pointing it directly at them. just in case. I guess I would give them one chance to leave peacefully in a short term SHTF event. but if it was long term, then I would shoot first.

Power off in the winter is a life or death situation. that generator is literal life or death.

 

[Hotdoger]

You can't use deadly force to protect your property from being stolen or damaged. Period.

I have a money bag in my hand (my property) you are trying to take it and I can't legally shoot you?

You are trying to carjack my car with me in it and I can't legally shoot you?

 

[moischmoe]

Power off in the winter is a life or death situation. that generator is literal life or death.

I have candles for light, kerosene for heat, river water or snow that can be boiled for drinking, but no juice for the internet? I WOULD die!

 

[JoshuaW]

A point that was raised in a thread about the Shockoe Bottom incident I read on another board can be applied here. There was much consternation dealing with the reality of a brandishing charge if one were to un-holster, but not fire. There is a fraction of a second the BG has to change his mind, which may change your course of action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IbPE8l1Qqg

Not in Indiana. No such crime.

I have a money bag in my hand (my property) you are trying to take it and I can't legally shoot you?

You are trying to carjack my car with me in it and I can't legally shoot you?

Yes, because they are going to have to assault you to take it from you, or otherwise physically threaten you in order for you to hand it over, unless you a pansy and volunteer it.

As for a car, they would have to forcibly enter it. That is a clean shoot as outlined in the IC. If you got out of your car, then tried to shoot them as they drove off, it would not be. If you were not in your car in the first place, it would not be.

 

[kludge]

"A rose by any other name..."

Look up "intimidation" in the code, esp. when a firearm is drawn. It is a crime and it can be a felony.

 

[rooster007]

Please look at my avatar , have you seen Deliverance , Ok enough said , please come and try to steal from me . Ask Ned Beatty

 

[Fish609]

If they dont leave with a gun pointed at them it is pretty safe to assume if they advance on you that they mean to do you serious bodily harm.

 

[subtlesixer03]

After reading most of the tread but anot all of it since my time is limited but anyway..

In the situation you are presenting I would assume that the thugs are there to steal it for there use since the weather and over all situation itself presents a danger to life in general. This would be the purpose of useing said gen unit would it not? So if they steal your gen unit then they are in fact putting your family and your life at risk. You also happen to be out numbered as well and them ignoreing you telling them to leave the property alone doesnt change the fact that taking that gen unit presents a very and real life threating danger to you and your family.

My personal thoughts.
chainsaw with one guy and bolt cutters with the other and they are both bigger then me, trying to steal my stuff from my property as well as presenting a danger to my familys life. I would say Id feel pretty damned threatened.

 

[duffman0286]

don't you live in Indiana? You know you can shoot them right?

nope we cant for property kentucky yes but only if they break in to your house or car if your in it

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

Before the last couple days, I wasn't sure how I'd handle this. After the last two days without power/heat/water, I think now that I'd shoot the SOBs :o) I think since I live in Indiana, I'd be OK. Well, at least I'd want to shoot them, but I doubt I would :o)

 

[Astrocreep]

Relevant Indiana Code Citation:
Indiana Code 35-41-3

According to state law, you absolutely can use deadly force in this scenario if it fits the definition of a Forcible Felony.

Forcible Felony defined:

Indiana Code 35-41-1-11

So, following the OP's scenario, you walk outside visibly armed and tell them they're not stealing your generator and that you require them to leave your property immediately. If either of them make a threat of physical violence to you or anyone else present, you are within your rights to use lethal force on the offender.
It would probably be in your interest to have a witness or a recording (cell phones work for this).

I would also get their license plate / make / model of vehicle as they leave (with a picture) for future reference. Say they return... that's a pretty threatening act and definitely trespassing (also covered in IC 35-41-3).

My
IANAL

 

[Jay]

If you've got the money to afford a generator, and guns, then an accurate legal opinion should be affordable. Potentially taking any legal advice from the internet into court is simply foolish.

Kinda like shunning a doctor, and being treated for a potentially fatal illness online.

 

[Indy317]

In a situation like this, just shooting the people would be iffy. A jury might give you a pass, but only after you dropped anywhere from $50-$100K, depending on what lawyer you hire to defend you.

The best course of action is to use force that is less than a firearm in an attempt to get your property back. This is allowed by law. What this would be could be just grabbing the generator and pulling it back, or maybe even running up and giving them a good shot of pepper spray. Then, if they don't just stop and leave right then, I couldn't find anyone guilty of any crime if they then felt they had to then shoot. A person has a right to protect their property, and if the thief one ups the theft-in-progress to a strong-armed or armed robbery, then deadly force definitely might become a valid option. It would mostly depend on a variety of factors, none of which can be predicted.

 

[duffman0286]

In a situation like this, just shooting the people would be iffy. A jury might give you a pass, but only after you dropped anywhere from $50-$100K, depending on what lawyer you hire to defend you.

The best course of action is to use force that is less than a firearm in an attempt to get your property back. This is allowed by law. What this would be could be just grabbing the generator and pulling it back, or maybe even running up and giving them a good shot of pepper spray. Then, if they don't just stop and leave right then, I couldn't find anyone guilty of any crime if they then felt they had to then shoot. A person has a right to protect their property, and if the thief one ups the theft-in-progress to a strong-armed or armed robbery, then deadly force definitely might become a valid option. It would mostly depend on a variety of factors, none of which can be predicted.

i strongly agree even in you win and no charges are brought against you your gonna send a lot of time in civil court cases

 

[jeremy]

i strongly agree even in you win and no charges are brought against you your gonna send a lot of time in civil court cases

If my understanding is correct, If it is found to be a "good shoot" then Civil cases are not able to be brought against you...

I could be wrong, I am not a Lawyer plus it has been a while since I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express...

 

[duffman0286]

If my understanding is correct, If it is found to be a "good shoot" then Civil cases are not able to be brought against you...

I could be wrong, I am not a Lawyer plus it has been a while since I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express...

still even with no charges being pressed against you... they still can press for wrongful death or unnecessary force they may or may not win but it still going to cost you quite a bit best to only use force when all else fails

 

[mrortega]

They wouldn't be able to get mine easily because it's a pad mounted unit with a natural gas line hooked to it and is hard wired into the house. They would have to have a decent pick up truck and some method of hoisting it to get it off the property. They would also have to cut the wires and rip the gas pipe off. I've got no problem blocking their vehicle with mine or a load of 00 buck into each of their tires. If I had a small gasoline powered unit from Lowes and they simply unhooked the extension cord and started pulling or carrying it off the property I can get between them and the way out. If they don't stop after I warn them they are going down if they approach closer than 20 feet. That is a direct threat to my life or health at any range closer than that. I am justified in stopping a felony and holding the felons until police arrive. If they plan on going thru me to get out I'm not required to retreat.

 

[finity]

I have a money bag in my hand (my property) you are trying to take it and I can't legally shoot you?

You are trying to carjack my car with me in it and I can't legally shoot you?

The crimes you listed above are not crimes against property, they are crimes again a person. They are "forcible felonies" because they have to threaten you with force to take the property if you don't give it to them.

If you put the bag down or get out of your car & someone takes them you can't shoot them for it. At that point it's theft (or conversion - I'm not really sure) but it's not robbery. It, therefore, does not constitute a "forcible felony" because it no longer involves a threat against a person in order to complete the crime.

"A rose by any other name..."

Look up "intimidation" in the code, esp. when a firearm is drawn. It is a crime and it can be a felony.

The "intimidation" law says that you have to be doing the action in retaliation for the other persons legal act or to make someone else who is doing something legal do something they otherwise wouldn't want to do.

If you are showing a gun to get them to stop doing something illegal (stealing your property) it's not intimidation...at least according to the IC.

Then again, the IC says that pointing a gun can be "reasonable force" & not necessarily "deadly force" but the court of appeals disagrees. It seems as long as you don't actually point the gun at them you shouldn't be charged with "pointing a firearm" either.