Stocks, Gold, Silver, and the printing press.

[smokingman]

end off the world as we know it(musical thread REM sorry....)...

ALL FUTURES DOW,NAS,and S&P....locked....limit down.A flood of red tape....so much for fixing the fiscal cliff.

I would not worry to much.Ladienmain 3(aka the FED)has it under control.If markets do actually open red I would be shocked.Then again the FED wants a fiscal cliff solution,so maybe they use the old shock and awe to rattle some politicians.


CNNMoney - Business, financial and personal finance news
ZeroHedge | On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

 

[EvilBlackGun]

What's that old line about gold: "it never drops to zero"?

But what if there is nothing to be bought with it? Then LEAD and BRASS become a useful medium of exchange -- that is, keeping those starving, deprived bankrupt Food Stamp Entitled folk from pillaging in your kitchen! Look for the Dragon-King M.C. club &/or Hell's Angels to be charging admission to WalMart. Do you really think that LEO will confront organized gangs during a food-panic? Unless they are accompanied by armed guards, truckers will be hijacked off of the interstates. Remember the trucker strike of a few years ago? WalMart delivery centers will become fortresses. Well, maybe not. Maybe the cliff is just a figment. Maybe we are not in the wordt depression since 1932. Hope so.

In your opinion, what can the gold metal detectors help you? In fact, on one hand it can help you to make your road of treasure hunting more fluently and bring you more surprises. The gold metal detectors can also help you to find it. Really useful, doesn't it?

 

[Big Muddy]

I would encourage all INGO members to look outside the MSM for financial information, data, and charts. The truth is out there- and while it may not be pretty, the first step in solving a problem, is realizing the extent of that problem.
Just a minimum of research, will show that this ski jump to nowhere we are on really started to pickup steam about 30/35 years ago (I'm sure it is just coincidence, but isn't that about the same time that Tricky Dick did away with the 'gold standard'??)
But in reality, it has really been a downhill run since the early part of the last century... about the same time that the Federal Reserve was born (wow! another coincidence! Whooda thunk?.
'The Fed' was given a dual mandate: protecting the value of our currency; and keeping unemployment low.
So how have they done?
1. Since that time, the US Dollar has lost 96%(!) of its value.
And:
2. As of today, less than 58% of working-age Americans have jobs.
Please: research this yourself!
The information is readily available; and if you are not sure where to go for it, it is obvious that there are many, many here on INGO who have already done significant legwork...... ask them to point you in the right direction.
Knowledge is power!

 

[lucky4034]

I looked at my parents last night (during Christmas dinner conversation). They are considering buying a new house and contemplating retirement.

Most of their wealth (thanks to good old British resolve) sits liquidated in a couple of banks.... I told them they would be wise to buy some hard assets (ie the house tey want or whatever) and soon. They asked me why and I told them that the dollar is about to end its cycle and go the way of the peso... and my dad either looked at me curiously or like I was a fool speaking out of his ass.

I hope they are right.... to be completely frank... Im not ready yet. I could use another year to prepare for that.

 

[smokingman]

This article was on Bloomberg and CNN news as of 6 am 2/19/2013.I am posting the link to the actual source of the article.


Billionaires Dumping Stocks, Economist Knows Why


Anyone else feeling the lack of inflation at the gas pump or on your utility bills lol?

 

[CarmelHP]

This article was on Bloomberg and CNN news as of 6 am 2/19/2013.I am posting the link to the actual source of the article.


Billionaires Dumping Stocks, Economist Knows Why


Anyone else feeling the lack of inflation at the gas pump or on your utility bills lol?

This is the problem. If that article is correct, then what is coming as an end game is a massive deflationary spiral as stocks and real estate collapse. The alternative is to print money faster to inflate the money supply and pump up stocks and other assets, however, as we know this also pumps up commodity prices...a lot. The deflationary spiral is the worst possible result as it would leave inflated debt in place while wiping out real estate and stock value and still collapse the currency. Neither picture of the future is particularly appealing.

 

[smokingman]

This is the problem. If that article is correct, then what is coming as an end game is a massive deflationary spiral as stocks and real estate collapse. The alternative is to print money faster to inflate the money supply and pump up stocks and other assets, however, as we know this also pumps up commodity prices...a lot. The deflationary spiral is the worst possible result as it would leave inflated debt in place while wiping out real estate and stock value and still collapse the currency. Neither picture of the future is particularly appealing.

I think it will be print/inflation route for sure.

Fed Buys Back 30 Year Bond Auctioned Off Last Thursday

Fed Buys Back 30 Year Bond Auctioned Off Last Thursday | Zero Hedge

In other words direct debt monitization in less than 3 business days.That 85 billion per month in MBS and treasuries is why we have the most expensive gas for this time of year ever.Inflation is already here.

Granted it is in things you need not things you want(yet).

 

[EvilBlackGun]

E.M.T. = Emergency Money Tactician ...

.... when EMT arrive on scene, they triage first: how many are breathing? Keep it so. How many are bleeding? STOP THE BLEEDING!! Stop YOUR own bleeding! Get yourself out of debt, get yourself OUT of the dollar! Go Bullion, Bullets, &/or Barter. Guns are just as good a bet. The S H T F IS gonna happen. Probably a Tsunami here caused by market-quake collapse across Europe, excluding Germany & Helvetia, which will instantly revert back to its Mark or Gold. There are LOTS of guns in Helvetia! No-one has ever overthrown them. Buy their francs. Buy ANY kind of bullet you can find here. Keep your gas-tank filled. Head on straight.

 

[smokingman]

DOW just hit a new record high.
The article is on the front page of CNN Money.
Dow record? Who cares? Economy still stinks! - The Buzz - Investment and Stock Market News

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-05/druckenmiller-when-you-get-kind-rigging-it-will-end-badly


CEO of Home Depot on CNBC.

"This is a big, big gamble," he notes, "manipulating the most important price in all of free markets," that ends one of only two ways, a mal-investment bust (as we saw in 2007-8) or full debt monetization and "off we go into inflation."

 

[teddy12b]

I'm amazed when I look at the spot prices of precious metals these days. With the stock market being as high as it is and the spot prices being as low as they are the only thing I can figure out is that the precious metal market is still being overly manipulated by an emotional market. I think that's coming to an end though, and probably sooner rather than later. I said it before the last election, and I'll repeat it now. With Obama's second term will come the end of the US dollar. I think we're in for quite a ride in the next few years.

 

[smokingman]

Let the EU bank runs begin.
Every individual bank account is being taxed.Money on deposit.Not interest,not income...deposited money(err fiat Euros).


Cypriot Outrage Over Tax Could Derail Euro-Area Bailout - Bloomberg


...coming to a country near you soon(after your retirement accounts of course in the USA).


*Less than a day,and it is spreading.
The Swiss are working on a "deposit" tax as well,they will use negative interest rates though.IE pay a tax via fees on all deposits.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-18/depositor-repression-may-spread-swizterland-eurchf-spikes


If the EU and IMF do not change this,it will be the start of the largest bank run in history.No one in the EU will feel like it is safe to deposit money in a bank.This is the end of the Euro as it currently stands.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100561018
"If this is successful then it will be used in the future," predicting Spanish and Italian banks could face similar levies. "If this is not successful then who cares about Cyprus."

 

[AtTheMurph]

.... when EMT arrive on scene, they triage first: how many are breathing? Keep it so. How many are bleeding? STOP THE BLEEDING!! Stop YOUR own bleeding! Get yourself out of debt, get yourself OUT of the dollar! Go Bullion, Bullets, &/or Barter. Guns are just as good a bet. The S H T F IS gonna happen. Probably a Tsunami here caused by market-quake collapse across Europe, excluding Germany & Helvetia, which will instantly revert back to its Mark or Gold. There are LOTS of guns in Helvetia! No-one has ever overthrown them. Buy their francs. Buy ANY kind of bullet you can find here. Keep your gas-tank filled. Head on straight.

This is actually bad advice.

If the prescription to the debt problem is to print (and by every action central banks are taking now and have in the past that is precisely what they are doing) then the way to beat the system is simple.

BORROW and buy real assets that produce returns.

Why would anyone pay off debts today with dollars that are worth more than they will be?

Real assets will have value whether or not there is a dollar in the future (and there most certainly will not be. It will go the way of every other fiat currency in the past. It will become history to be replaced by a new currency).

Think of it this way. If I told you that this is Weimar Germany in 1919 what would you do? Would you pay off your debts to the banks? Would you go borrow every penny you could and invest in a coal mine, a factory, a farm, gold, cigars, whiskey, you name it? Or would you pay off all your debts and simply hunker down?

The people who became wealthy during the Weimar hyperinflation were the ones who used the collapse of the currency to their advantage. They used money today to buy real things that produced money to pay off the worthless debts they incurred.

Those debts became worthless to the borrower! If I borrowed 1 million marks in 1919 and paid it off in 1922 what did it really cost me? Nothing, yet I still owned the asset I bought with the 1 million marks.

We are getting very close to the same situation today. Our Central Bankers will never allow deflation. They will always and everywhere print. Now it is an admitted 85 billion per month (not including foreign "lending", swaps, repos, etc). Then it will be more, then more then more then poof!

 

[BigMatt]

This is actually bad advice.

If the prescription to the debt problem is to print (and by every action central banks are taking now and have in the past that is precisely what they are doing) then the way to beat the system is simple.

BORROW and buy real assets that produce returns.

Why would anyone pay off debts today with dollars that are worth more than they will be?

Real assets will have value whether or not there is a dollar in the future (and there most certainly will not be. It will go the way of every other fiat currency in the past. It will become history to be replaced by a new currency).

Think of it this way. If I told you that this is Weimar Germany in 1919 what would you do? Would you pay off your debts to the banks? Would you go borrow every penny you could and invest in a coal mine, a factory, a farm, gold, cigars, whiskey, you name it? Or would you pay off all your debts and simply hunker down?

The people who became wealthy during the Weimar hyperinflation were the ones who used the collapse of the currency to their advantage. They used money today to buy real things that produced money to pay off the worthless debts they incurred.

Those debts became worthless to the borrower! If I borrowed 1 million marks in 1919 and paid it off in 1922 what did it really cost me? Nothing, yet I still owned the asset I bought with the 1 million marks.

We are getting very close to the same situation today. Our Central Bankers will never allow deflation. They will always and everywhere print. Now it is an admitted 85 billion per month (not including foreign "lending", swaps, repos, etc). Then it will be more, then more then more then poof!

I agree with this. The only problem is knowing when the collapse will happen.

1) If you wait too late, the banks won't lend to you. Why would a bank lend out money when the money they will be paid back in 5 years will be worthless?

2) If you go too early, you will end up spending all your money to keep your notes in the black before the meltdown.

 

[lucky4034]

2) If you go too early, you will end up spending all your money to keep your notes in the black before the meltdown.

I don't know... I don't think it would be wise to gamble and purchase a house you can't afford if there is no collapse. A wiser strategy however is to purchase a house you can afford either way but make sure you get a LONG LOAN at a fixed APR... Then just pay minimum payments until money devalues to the point you can pay it off quickly.

 

[teddy12b]

BORROW and buy real assets that produce returns.

While I agree with what you're saying in theory, you left out the part about whatever you'd buy being a potential risk. For example, if you take out loans and buy something you are expecting that the material you just bought would have more buying power in the new currency than it is in the current fiat US dollar. If you took a million dollar loan and bought gold, silver, etc and in the new currency you're gold & silver are only worth a half a million of new dollars, then you'd be hosed if buying power of the new currency only bought half the materials you were used to. I understand the idea you're trying to get across and it has it's merits for sure, but in the end it's still a calculated risk with lots at stake.

 

[AtTheMurph]

I agree with this. The only problem is knowing when the collapse will happen.

1) If you wait too late, the banks won't lend to you. Why would a bank lend out money when the money they will be paid back in 5 years will be worthless?

2) If you go too early, you will end up spending all your money to keep your notes in the black before the meltdown.

The banks will not want to sit on that depreciating currency anymore than you would. They will lend at the going rates until hyperinflation sets in. Then it's too late to do anything because no one will take the money for a real asset.

You have to buy before.

 

[teddy12b]

I don't know... I don't think it would be wise to gamble and purchase a house you can't afford if there is no collapse. A wiser strategy however is to purchase a house you can afford either way but make sure you get a LONG LOAN at a fixed APR... Then just pay minimum payments until money devalues to the point you can pay it off quickly.

In this case, I think a person could/should take a fixed rate loan that they can pay back, but also invest in precious metals. If the bubble pops and gold is $5000 per ounce and silver is $600 per ounce then use those increases in fiat value to pay off whatever you can on a fixed loan. At one point in time the average house in the US was worth around 100 ounces of silves. Today 100 ounces is about $3000. If there was ever a market correction that $3000 worth of silver could knock out a large portion of an average sized families house. I have few doubts that a market correction is already underway. What I am concerned with is what's going to be left afterwards.

 

[AtTheMurph]

While I agree with what you're saying in theory, you left out the part about whatever you'd buy being a potential risk. For example, if you take out loans and buy something you are expecting that the material you just bought would have more buying power in the new currency than it is in the current fiat US dollar. If you took a million dollar loan and bought gold, silver, etc and in the new currency you're gold & silver are only worth a half a million of new dollars, then you'd be hosed if buying power of the new currency only bought half the materials you were used to. I understand the idea you're trying to get across and it has it's merits for sure, but in the end it's still a calculated risk with lots at stake.

I'm not expecting anything to have more buying power in the future. I expect it to have the SAME buying power. What I know is that the currency that the note is denominated in will be debased. That is the opportunity. You pay off the note with cheaper money.

What you are trying to say is that the very reasons a country will debase their currency to oblivion will be turned upside down and they will somehow be able to create a new money that devalues real things in the new money terms. That's non-sensical.

What you are really saying is that there is a risk that debts will be revalued higher. In your example, if i were to borrow and buy $1m of gold as an example. After the new currency is installed my debt will be $2M.

There is no risk of that. None.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Let the EU bank runs begin.
Every individual bank account is being taxed.Money on deposit.Not interest,not income...deposited money(err fiat Euros).


Cypriot Outrage Over Tax Could Derail Euro-Area Bailout - Bloomberg


...coming to a country near you soon(after your retirement accounts of course in the USA).


*Less than a day,and it is spreading.
The Swiss are working on a "deposit" tax as well,they will use negative interest rates though.IE pay a tax via fees on all deposits.
"Depositor Repression" May Spread To Swizterland, EURCHF Spikes | Zero Hedge


If the EU and IMF do not change this,it will be the start of the largest bank run in history.No one in the EU will feel like it is safe to deposit money in a bank.This is the end of the Euro as it currently stands.

Cypriot Authorities in Revised Deal Talks
"If this is successful then it will be used in the future," predicting Spanish and Italian banks could face similar levies. "If this is not successful then who cares about Cyprus."

I'm guessing the gun laws in Cyprus are pretty restrictive or maybe the Cypriats are just really laid back people. I know there have been posts on here not too long ago about the prospect of the .gov going after savings here in the US...Another good reason to enact gun control legislation, eh?

 

[smokingman]