Stop The Bleeding - The Other Side Of Counter Terrorism

[rhino]

So how many of us reading this know how to render first-aid for injuries & conditions like penetrating wounds and other bleeding, broken limbs, eyes popping out, traumatic amputations, heart attacks, low/high blood sugar, etc.?

What do you carry with you on your person (not in your vehicle unless you're always in your vehicle) that you can use in emergencies?

Have you decided what level of assistance you're willing to provide or what limits you will not exceed? If you have certifications/licenses, that may be decided for you by law.

Do you know how to treat injuries to yourself (yes, I'm apparently an expert)?

Have you considered that you may need to take actions to "secure" a situation prior to rendering first-aid, either to yourself or others? Have you trained for this?

 

[lovemachine]

So how many of us reading this know how to render first-aid for injuries & conditions like penetrating wounds and other bleeding, broken limbs, eyes popping out, traumatic amputations, heart attacks, low/high blood sugar, etc.?

What do you carry with you on your person (not in your vehicle unless you're always in your vehicle) that you can use in emergencies?

Have you decided what level of assistance you're willing to provide or what limits you will not exceed? If you have certifications/licenses, that may be decided for you by law.

Do you know how to treat injuries to yourself (yes, I'm apparently an expert)?

Have you considered that you may need to take actions to "secure" a situation prior to rendering first-aid, either to yourself or others? Have you trained for this?

I want to learn all of that.

 

[Sylvain]

So how many of us reading this know how to render first-aid for injuries & conditions like penetrating wounds and other bleeding, broken limbs, eyes popping out, traumatic amputations, heart attacks, low/high blood sugar, etc.?

What do you carry with you on your person (not in your vehicle unless you're always in your vehicle) that you can use in emergencies?

Have you decided what level of assistance you're willing to provide or what limits you will not exceed? If you have certifications/licenses, that may be decided for you by law.

Do you know how to treat injuries to yourself (yes, I'm apparently an expert)?

Have you considered that you may need to take actions to "secure" a situation prior to rendering first-aid, either to yourself or others? Have you trained for this?

Unless you have some serious experience (like being a combat medic) you will probably be overwhelmed by the whole situation even if you had some training.

I had some first aid training and later had to deal with the same issues but for real and all by myself.It's not the same thing at all, way more nerve racking when the blood is real and you can't ask the intructor what you should be doing next.

After the Charlie Hebdo attack (in France, 2015) I remember the interview of the first person who found the victims ... Patrick Pelloux (who's a ER physician and trauma expert) who explained how overwhelmed he was by all the victims and their injuries even though he's trained to deal with that sort of things.
He also knew all the victims, that's a big factor as well.

I think even a basic first aid class will cover most of the injuries you mentioned (bleeding, CPR, broken bones etc).Depending on where you train they might not teach you how to use a tourniquet so you might have do take other classes for that.

Here is what I carry on my person:

Nitrile gloves, SWAT Tourniquet, few feet of duct tape and a plastic bag.

INGO sticker for scale, that's a small kit not bigger than a pack of tissue (I also carry a pack of tissue that can be used with the SWAT T to stop bleeding).
If I added more things I couldn't carry it all the time so for me the SWAT T is the best since it can be used also as a pressure dressing, sling for a broken arm or just to hold an ice pack on a limb.


Then I have more in my backpack, that I try to have with me as often as I can even though sometimes it stays in the car (it depends how far away I am from the car and for how long).

Shears, another SWAT Tourniquet, a roll of gause, nitrile gloves, 2 ABD pads, duct tape, medical tape etc ...
That's in the outside pocket of my bag.

And inside the bag I have another kit ...

Small first aid kit for smaller injuries.It has pain killers for headaches, some sugar cubes, emergency blanket, small mirror to treat my own injuries (on the face and back), more role of gauze and pads, tape etc.

Also a Sharpie (to write T or G, and the time if I need to apply a tourniquet) and pen with a note pad (should I need to take some information about the victim like phone number or whatnot).

The mirror came handy a few times.
One time I scratched my back while going under a fence.

I also have a headlamp in my bag to treat any injuries at night, very important in my opinion to keep both hands free.

As far as "securing the situation" I also carry a few tools for this and had some martial arts training as well.

I update my kits regularly based on my previous experiences.
What can I add/remove?
Was everything accessible fast enough? Especially gloves and tourniquet that need to be at the top.
Can I open the bag with gloves on or wet/bloody hands? I added a longer zipper to the yellow kit after that.
Can I see everything in the bag as soon as I open it? Clear bags to keep everyhing waterproof as well.
Can I locate my kit at night easily? I added some reflective tape on another kit.
Etc ...

 

[rhino]

I want to learn all of that.

And you can! (we have a class later this year)

Unless you have some serious experience (like being a combat medic) you will probably be overwhelmed by the whole situation even if you had some training.

I had some first aid training and later had to deal with the same issues but for real and all by myself.It's not the same thing at all, way more nerve racking when the blood is real and you can't ask the intructor what you should be doing next.

After the Charlie Hebdo attack (in France, 2015) I remember the interview of the first person who found the victims ... Patrick Pelloux (who's a ER physician and trauma expert) who explained how overwhelmed he was by all the victims and their injuries even though he's trained to deal with that sort of things.
He also knew all the victims, that's a big factor as well.

That's a good point, but I'd say that having some training and practice ahead of time won't hurt and it could help reduce the effects.

I haven't been in a situation where multiple people were injured by violence, but I've seen a lot of blood and didn't panic.

I think even a basic first aid class will cover most of the injuries you mentioned (bleeding, CPR, broken bones etc).Depending on where you train they might not teach you how to use a tourniquet so you might have do take other classes for that.

Agreed . . . but I suppose it depends on what you consider a basic kit!

Mine is:

• 6 in IBD
• SOFTT-W tourniquet
• Gorilla tape
• nitrile gloves

I keep more stuff in my truck, but that doesn't count based on my previous message.

Here is what I carry on my person:


Nitrile gloves, SWAT Tourniquet, few feet of duct tape and a plastic bag.

INGO sticker for scale, that's a small kit not bigger than a pack of tissue (I also carry a pack of tissue that can be used with the SWAT T to stop bleeding).
If I added more things I couldn't carry it all the time so for me the SWAT T is the best since it can be used also as a pressure dressing, sling for a broken arm or just to hold an ice pack on a limb.

Good! I have the IBD for similar reasons. In fact, it could be used as a tourniquet as well, but it's not as fast as the SOFTT-W, especially if I have to do it to myself.

Then I have more in my backpack, that I try to have with me as often as I can even though sometimes it stays in the car (it depends how far away I am from the car and for how long).


Shears, another SWAT Tourniquet, a roll of gause, nitrile gloves, 2 ABD pads, duct tape, medical tape etc ...
That's in the outside pocket of my bag.

No IBD or similar? Have you tried them? They work really well!

And inside the bag I have another kit ...

Small first aid kit for smaller injuries.It has pain killers for headaches, some sugar cubes, emergency blanket, small mirror to treat my own injuries (on the face and back), more role of gauze and pads, tape etc.

Also a Sharpie (to write T or G, and the time if I need to apply a tourniquet) and pen with a note pad (should I need to take some information about the victim like phone number or whatnot).

The mirror came handy a few times.
One time I scratched my back while going under a fence.

I also have a headlamp in my bag to treat any injuries at night, very important in my opinion to keep both hands free.

Ah! I do not carry a headlamp in my truck. If I'm wearing a cap, I can clip my Microstream to it, but I'm not always wearing a cap. I think I I need a compact headlamp for when I may need both hands for other tasks.

As far as "securing the situation" I also carry a few tools for this and had some martial arts training as well.

I update my kits regularly based on my previous experiences.
What can I add/remove?
Was everything accessible fast enough? Especially gloves and tourniquet that need to be at the top.
Can I open the bag with gloves on or wet/bloody hands? I added a longer zipper to the yellow kit after that.
Can I see everything in the bag as soon as I open it? Clear bags to keep everyhing waterproof as well.
Can I locate my kit at night easily? I added some reflective tape on another kit.
Etc ...

I think you have an excellent plan and the gear to match.

The only thing I think you should add is an IBD or three or one of the clones on the market. I've used them before and they're very effective and easy to apply to yourself even with one hand (with a little practice).

 

[Sylvain]

Of course having training is always good but still you never know how you will react when faced with the real deal.

You might faint when you see lots of blood.
I nearly did one time, I took some sugar cubes and kept working on the victim (that why I now added them to my kit).

During training they had a pool of fake blood on the floor to make us used to the sight of blood, next to a victim who tried to cut her wrists with a kitchen knife.
But it's different when you see a family member covered in blood, from my experience anyway.
It's always easier to treat strangers.

I just know IBDs from training videos I saw, they are harder to get where I live (and expensive when you can find them, $15 to $20 for the smaller ones, plus shipping) ... but a roll of gauze and some pads will provide the same results (might be harder to apply on yourself though).
Or the SWAT T and an ABD pad.

Same for the SWAT T and any kind of tourniquets, they were shipped to me by a fellow INGO member.

The headlamp I use is a Petzl Tikka 2.

It has two levels of brightness with the white light, strobes (red or white) and light will flash when the battery is getting low.

Great for first aid or to change a tire at night.

Petzl is pretty much the best when it comes to headlamps, they have cheaper models too.
I tried cheaper brands but they stop working when you need them the most.

 

[lovemachine]

I'm interested. I'd love to learn medical. And would like to learn what items I should be carrying on me.

And you can! (we have a class later this year)





That's a good point, but I'd say that having some training and practice ahead of time won't hurt and it could help reduce the effects.

I haven't been in a situation where multiple people were injured by violence, but I've seen a lot of blood and didn't panic.




Agreed . . . but I suppose it depends on what you consider a basic kit!

Mine is:

• 6 in IBD
• SOFTT-W tourniquet
• Gorilla tape
• nitrile gloves

I keep more stuff in my truck, but that doesn't count based on my previous message.




Good! I have the IBD for similar reasons. In fact, it could be used as a tourniquet as well, but it's not as fast as the SOFTT-W, especially if I have to do it to myself.




No IBD or similar? Have you tried them? They work really well!




Ah! I do not carry a headlamp in my truck. If I'm wearing a cap, I can clip my Microstream to it, but I'm not always wearing a cap. I think I I need a compact headlamp for when I may need both hands for other tasks.




I think you have an excellent plan and the gear to match.

The only thing I think you should add is an IBD or three or one of the clones on the market. I've used them before and they're very effective and easy to apply to yourself even with one hand (with a little practice).

 

[Randy Harris]

A basic CPR class is a great way to start. Take them often and get a lot of practice. It is easy to forget or assume you will know if or when the yime comes to use what you've learned.

While it is a good place to start, CPR is primarily effective for drowning, electrocutions and heart attacks....that is NOT what you need to know for traumatic injury with blood loss. Injuries in a mass shooting or bombing don't look anything like a drowning or a heart attack and trying to employ the same solutions can be counterproductive to the patient.

 

[rhino]

Of course having training is always good but still you never know how you will react when faced with the real deal.

You might faint when you see lots of blood.
I nearly did one time, I took some sugar cubes and kept working on the victim (that why I now added them to my kit).

During training they had a pool of fake blood on the floor to make us used to the sight of blood, next to a victim who tried to cut her wrists with a kitchen knife.
But it's different when you see a family member covered in blood, from my experience anyway.
It's always easier to treat strangers.

All true. I can only speak for myself. I think I react differently because I have rehearsed. In fact, I know I had a concussion when I treated my own head laceration back in 2009, so I was operating on auto-pilot.

I wonder if seeing my own blood counts as a family member?? HAH!

I just know IBDs from training videos I saw, they are harder to get where I live (and expensive when you can find them, $15 to $20 for the smaller ones, plus shipping) ... but a roll of gauze and some pads will provide the same results (might be harder to apply on yourself though).
Or the SWAT T and an ABD pad.

Same for the SWAT T and any kind of tourniquets, they were shipped to me by a fellow INGO member.

We'll have to hook you up with some IBDs.

The headlamp I use is a Petzl Tikka 2.

It has two levels of brightness with the white light, strobes (red or white) and light will flash when the battery is getting low.

Great for first aid or to change a tire at night.

Petzl is pretty much the best when it comes to headlamps, they have cheaper models too.
I tried cheaper brands but they stop working when you need them the most.

Thanks for the recommendation! I'm familiar with the brand, but I've never owned any of their gear. Before all of the "tactical" flashlights hit the market, I used Underwater Kinetics and Pelican lights.

I'm interested. I'd love to learn medical. And would like to learn what items I should be carrying on me.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/adaptive-consulting-training/405483-acts-2016-schedule.html

See 19 NOV 2016 - Emergency Medical Overview

 

[Sylvain]

Petzl makes a tiny model that can easily fit in any first aid kit.

 

[rhino]

Petzl makes a tiny model that can easily fit in any first aid kit.

That is COOL!

 

[Sylvain]

That is COOL!

I haven't tested it myself but it looks good for an emergency only light.
Obviously not something you would use everyday or for a few days camping trip.

You can also clip it to a hat.

 

[rhino]

And I haven't bought a flashlight in quite a while . . .

 

[Lex Concord]

A pocket knife or a pair of shears is one of the best tools you can have to treat lots of victim at a mass shooting IMO.
That a maybe a pair of nitrile gloves, it takes no room at all in any jeans pocket.

It's also good to look around and see what you could use (bed sheets, tablecloth, napkins, towels, blankets etc ...).
Kinda like getting into the habit of scanning the room for potential improvised weapons, but for first aid.

Of course it's also good to have some commercial grade stuff like tourniquets that are tougher to make quickly.
But you will never have enough of your own gear if you have multiple victims anyway.

The last line is all too true. Your most important tool is your mind, followed by your voice. Use both to consider field-expedient substitutes and direct others to find, fashion, or employ them as appropriate.

You may not feel comfortable doing triage, but you may be the most qualified person on the spot. To that end, and in agreement with those up (and likely down) thread, training is critical. CPR training can usually be found free or cheap, as can baseline first aid classes.

While piercing trauma has special considerations, general first aid is an all-around survival skill, guns and knives or not.

As it has been a while, I have inspired myself to search for some courses to "upgrade my software" in this respect.

 

[Lex Concord]

So how many of us reading this know how to render first-aid for injuries & conditions like penetrating wounds and other bleeding, broken limbs, eyes popping out, traumatic amputations, heart attacks, low/high blood sugar, etc.?

Learned all (and more) at one point, but definitely need a refresher, as previously stated... eyes popping out is a favorite.

What do you carry with you on your person (not in your vehicle unless you're always in your vehicle) that you can use in emergencies?

Barely anything. Great point, and that will be changing very soon.

Have you decided what level of assistance you're willing to provide or what limits you will not exceed? If you have certifications/licenses, that may be decided for you by law.

Do you know how to treat injuries to yourself (yes, I'm apparently an expert)?

Have you considered that you may need to take actions to "secure" a situation prior to rendering first-aid, either to yourself or others? Have you trained for this?

Excellent questions, all. Things everyone should ponder and take action to improve readiness.

 

[bwframe]

I haven't tested it myself but it looks good for an emergency only light.
Obviously not something you would use everyday or for a few days camping trip.

You can also clip it to a hat.

And I haven't bought a flashlight in quite a while . . .

I've not been fond of headlights in the past, as they seem to bring bugs right into your eyes. Lately I've been doing a lot of vehicle mechanical work and my old eyes require more and more light all the time. I've settled on this one for now. Bright, very handy motion sensor and inexpensive. I've put one in the vehicles and BOB.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QWNSR8Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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The government gets its just power from the Consent of the Governed. We need to get back to the Consent of the governed. We have tried gun free zones and regulation out the ass. It is not working. Stop infringing on unalienable rights and let those of us with guns and skills solve this bull**** and lower the body count.

Largest mass murder in the nations history, other than the ones committed against the Indians, and it is the same ole bull**** but spouted from DC and nothing real is getting done.

Yep!

 

[rhino]

Learned all (and more) at one point, but definitely need a refresher, as previously stated... eyes popping out is a favorite.



Barely anything. Great point, and that will be changing very soon.



Excellent questions, all. Things everyone should ponder and take action to improve readiness.

I was thinking about the last questions. Many of us have decided what we are willing to do and when in a defense situation, but that same question is just as pertinent to other life-saving tasks such as first-aid. It's not necessarily simple either!

I've not been fond of headlights in the past, as they seem to bring bugs right into your eyes. Lately I've been doing a lot of vehicle mechanical work and my old eyes require more and more light all the time. I've settled on this one for now. Bright, very handy motion sensor and inexpensive. I've put one in the vehicles and BOB.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QWNSR8Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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I'll have to check it out.

I've been using a headlamp around the house for a few years, but it's tough to use them when you're using a hat with a brim.

Here is the Fenix headlamp I use: https://www.fenixlighting.com/product/hp15ue-fenix-headlamp/

I like 900 lumens when I need it, but the battery pack on the back of the head is annoying. I will probably get something smaller to supplement it.

I was just putting a new IBD in the little kit I keep in my truck and noticed a little keychain light I put inside there.

 

[Bill of Rights]

The "guns on the way to a prison" threadjack has been moved. https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/416134-gun-free-zones-how-regulate-them-threadjack-controlling-bleeding.html

To those in this thread who were not interested in that topic, my apologies for my part in the

 

[Sylvain]

I watched Patriots Day, the movie about the Boston marathon bombing.
Just earlier today I was going thru my different medical kits, after having to use one during a hike the other day; in order to refurbish them.

I figured we could bump the thread.
You never know when you will have to treat yourself or others.