Student Suspended for Refusing to Leave Class During Gun Control Walkout

[BugI02]

So it seems to me:

If you are going to walk out, go to A. If you are not going to walk out, go to B.

-I refuse to do either.

A or B are your choices.

-Don't care.

If you don't want to walk out, fine. Go to B.

- No

No?

- No.

OK, you're suspended.

Seems legit to me.

Allow no dissent, at most only passive acceptance of the party line. Good practice for college or their future workplace

 

[chipbennett]

I did say perhaps. Although honestly where they were was probably teachers choice, although if there weren't enough volunteers for either area I could see them being assigned one or the other.



A school authorized walkout is a school function, just like a school authorized pep rally.

Can you show me where in the IC or state of your choice?

Yes. He had two options, either go outside or go to another area.

How is it absurd? I'll use the pep rally again, the school authorizes the cheer leading team to have a pep rally. The students are given a choice, either attend the pep rally or go to the library. A student says no, I'm gonna stomp my feet and hold my breath and sit somewhere else. Is he not breaking the rules?

Can you show me where in the rules, that a student led walkout that is once again authorized by the school is against the rules?

You seem to be getting hung up on the student led part, I don't know about your schools but the pep rallies at mine were "student led".

And you seem to be playing intentionally obtuse. A pep rally is not a walkout. The stated purpose of the walkout was to disrupt school proceedings. The two simply cannot be compared, and you cannot justify a walkout by conflating it with a pep rally.

 

[Expat]

I noted the Goshen News reported that the Goshen HS rioters were led out of the school by the Principal and several teachers...

 

[NHT3]

Don't want to offend any Chinese but from what I saw on TV it looked like a Chinese fire drill. To say they were "supervising" the students is a joke. My dictionary says supervise means "observe and direct, keep watch over". No way to do either in the situations I saw. Kid in a class room by himself was just as "supervised" as the ones running helter skelter down the street.


[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[BugI02]

And you seem to be playing intentionally obtuse. A pep rally is not a walkout. The stated purpose of the walkout was to disrupt school proceedings. The two simply cannot be compared, and you cannot justify a walkout by conflating it with a pep rally.

It's the "school sanctioned" part. If a school schedules a fire drill, although all students would be outside of class and only minimally supervised, no school rules were broken and students would not have the option to remain behind and not participate.

That the school would sanction an overtly political event is where the problem lies, the fact that a significant number of students might wish the school to participate notwithstanding. We all can guess what would happen if a significant number of students wished to hold a school sanctioned minute of silence for those killed by abortion or some other overtly political cause not approved by the supreme soviet

 

[Timjoebillybob]

And you seem to be playing intentionally obtuse. A pep rally is not a walkout. The stated purpose of the walkout was to disrupt school proceedings. The two simply cannot be compared, and you cannot justify a walkout by conflating it with a pep rally.

Nope, not being obtuse. Can you show me where that it stated that the purpose of the walkout was to disrupt school proceedings? I never saw that. Or is it like state rules, school board rules, etc that I asked about before?

Don't want to offend any Chinese but from what I saw on TV it looked like a Chinese fire drill. To say they were "supervising" the students is a joke. My dictionary says supervise means "observe and direct, keep watch over". No way to do either in the situations I saw. Kid in a class room by himself was just as "supervised" as the ones running helter skelter down the street.

I saw video of one or two school iirc out in CA like that, I also saw video of some that looked pretty organised. What was it like at the school in question?

It's the "school sanctioned" part. If a school schedules a fire drill, although all students would be outside of class and only minimally supervised, no school rules were broken and students would not have the option to remain behind and not participate.

That the school would sanction an overtly political event is where the problem lies, the fact that a significant number of students might wish the school to participate notwithstanding. We all can guess what would happen if a significant number of students wished to hold a school sanctioned minute of silence for those killed by abortion or some other overtly political cause not approved by the supreme soviet

I agree with this.

 

[chipbennett]

It's the "school sanctioned" part. If a school schedules a fire drill, although all students would be outside of class and only minimally supervised, no school rules were broken and students would not have the option to remain behind and not participate.

Schools are required by law to conduct fire drills.

I contend that the school cannot "sanction" a student walkout with the stated purpose of disrupting the school. Teachers participating in such a walkout is more or less equivalent to a strike. Allowing students to roam the streets freely ("sanctioned" or otherwise) during the school day constitutes negligence on the part of the school, and would make the school liable for anything that happens to the students during the walkout.

That the school would sanction an overtly political event is where the problem lies, the fact that a significant number of students might wish the school to participate notwithstanding. We all can guess what would happen if a significant number of students wished to hold a school sanctioned minute of silence for those killed by abortion or some other overtly political cause not approved by the supreme soviet

This is the underlying problem, yes.

Where is Joe Clark when you need him.

[video=youtube;_SbkHgx6YIo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SbkHgx6YIo[/video]

 

[chipbennett]

Nope, not being obtuse. Can you show me where that it stated that the purpose of the walkout was to disrupt school proceedings? I never saw that. Or is it like state rules, school board rules, etc that I asked about before?

Not being obtuse, while simultaneously claiming ignorance regarding the stated intent of the mass, organized, school walkout?

 

[chipbennett]

Oh, and since I got called out on it, here's the Hilliard City, OH, High School student handbook.

See page 22, #3: Unexcused Absence/Truancy:

—Any student who is absent from school/class without his/her parent’spermission/ notification or is absent from an assigned area within the school is unexcused/truant.

Skipping class (such as is required for a walkout) is explicitly against school rules.

See also Page 23, #4: School Business:

Field trips, performing arts, voting booth, shadowing and anything deemed school-related are considered“School Business.” Students will be issued a school business/field trip permission form by theteacher prior to the event. These forms must be signed by a parent/guardian and all applicable teachers,and returned to the teacher organizing the event at least 24 hours prior to the absence. The teacher willsupply the attendance office with an alphabetized list of students attending the event. School businessdoes not count as an absence on the student’s record.

Any bets on whether the walkout conformed to this policy?

Oh, and then there's this little gem, too (page 24):

ENTERING/LEAVING BUILDING
• Students are not to enter or leave the building during school hours without reporting to the attendanceoffice.
• Failure to sign in or out of school will result in disciplinary action.
• Phone calls or notes from a parent to excuse a student AFTER they have left the building will not be accepted.

EARLY DISMISSAL(Leaving and/or returning for the remainder of the day)
• A note/or phone call must be received by the attendance office prior to a student leaving. The note mustbe signed by a parent or legal guardian, with the student’s name, time of early dismissal, and a phonenumber where the parent can be reached for confirmation.
• Students must sign out through the attendance office before leaving the building. Failure to sign outwill result in disciplinary action and early dismissal may be made unexcused.

Any bets on whether the participating students reported to the attendance office? Any bets on whether or not the participating students had a signed note from mommy?

And, lest you argue that the school has discretionary enforcement authority:

STUDENT CONDUCT: ZERO TOLERANCE
This code of conduct is in effect while students are under the authority of school personnel or involved inany school activity. This includes but is not limited to school buses and property under the control of schoolauthorities, and while at interscholastic competitions, extracurricular events, or other school activities orprograms.
...
CONDUCT CODE
The following types of misconduct shall most ordinarily result in suspension, removal, expulsion or denial ofprivileges:
11. Disruption or interference with curricular or extracurricular activities.
12. Insubordination, including intentional interference with the teacher’s conducting of the class, failureto obey a reasonable request or failure to identify oneself to school personnel when requested.
13. Inciting to riot or to disrupt the operation of the school.
22. Tardiness to class or school.
23. Truancy and other unexcused absences from class or school.

Need I go on?

And also for reference, the Ohio state statutes regarding compulsory school attendance:

Lawriter - ORC

 

[Fargo]

IMO, if it is school sanctioned, it isn't a walkout. It is more along the lines of a state sanctioned and paid for political protest.

Which leads me to wonder, would the "students against abortion" walkout receive similar support?

I am really curious if other political protest have/will receive the same treatment, especially since state law mandates a whole lot of things as regards attendance and curriculum.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If the media would quit stirring, nobody would care. OMG, students protesting? When did this start? Next there will be senior skip day and petitions for better food in the cafeteria.

It's the new taking a knee.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Oh, and since I got called out on it, here's the Hilliard City, OH, High School student handbook.

See page 22, #3: Unexcused Absence/Truancy:

—Any student who is absent from school/class without his/her parent’spermission/ notification or is absent from an assigned area within the school is unexcused/truant.

Skipping class (such as is required for a walkout) is explicitly against school rules.


See also Page 23, #4: School Business:

Field trips, performing arts, voting booth, shadowing and anything deemed school-related are considered“School Business.” Students will be issued a school business/field trip permission form by theteacher prior to the event. These forms must be signed by a parent/guardian and all applicable teachers,and returned to the teacher organizing the event at least 24 hours prior to the absence. The teacher willsupply the attendance office with an alphabetized list of students attending the event. School businessdoes not count as an absence on the student’s record.

Any bets on whether the walkout conformed to this policy?

Oh, and then there's this little gem, too (page 24):

ENTERING/LEAVING BUILDING
• Students are not to enter or leave the building during school hours without reporting to the attendanceoffice.
• Failure to sign in or out of school will result in disciplinary action.
• Phone calls or notes from a parent to excuse a student AFTER they have left the building will not be accepted.


EARLY DISMISSAL(Leaving and/or returning for the remainder of the day)
• A note/or phone call must be received by the attendance office prior to a student leaving. The note mustbe signed by a parent or legal guardian, with the student’s name, time of early dismissal, and a phonenumber where the parent can be reached for confirmation.
• Students must sign out through the attendance office before leaving the building. Failure to sign outwill result in disciplinary action and early dismissal may be made unexcused.

Any bets on whether the participating students reported to the attendance office? Any bets on whether or not the participating students had a signed note from mommy?

And, lest you argue that the school has discretionary enforcement authority:

STUDENT CONDUCT: ZERO TOLERANCE
This code of conduct is in effect while students are under the authority of school personnel or involved inany school activity. This includes but is not limited to school buses and property under the control of schoolauthorities, and while at interscholastic competitions, extracurricular events, or other school activities orprograms.
...
CONDUCT CODE
The following types of misconduct shall most ordinarily result in suspension, removal, expulsion or denial ofprivileges:
11. Disruption or interference with curricular or extracurricular activities.
12. Insubordination, including intentional interference with the teacher’s conducting of the class, failureto obey a reasonable request or failure to identify oneself to school personnel when requested.
13. Inciting to riot or to disrupt the operation of the school.
22. Tardiness to class or school.
23. Truancy and other unexcused absences from class or school.

Need I go on?

And also for reference, the Ohio state statutes regarding compulsory school attendance:

Lawriter - ORC

See page 22, #3: Unexcused Absence/Truancy: Yep which could explain why he was suspended. He wasn't in his assigned area, there were two assigned areas he could have went to, outside or the other room. The room he wanted to stay in wasn't one of them. Were the other students in one of the assigned areas?

See also Page 23, #4: School Business: From reading the handbook, it appears to apply to leaving school grounds. Would a science teacher have to get a permission slip to take a class out to look at plants/bugs growing on school grounds? I never saw one for any of my kids or when I was a kid. Heck how you think it applies would also apply to a fire drill, or recess. Or even a student who had permission from a teacher to run to their car parked on campus to get a book or something they forgot in it.

Oh, and then there's this little gem, too

(page 24): Applies to attendance, the students were still in attendance.

And none of those applied. Well 11,12 could apply to the student that was suspended, but a possibly a bit of a stretch depending on his actions.

For the compulsory attendance, once again the students were in attendance.

Yes, please do. Once again IMO you are pissed that this was allowed, and are grasping at straws in an attempt to justifying it on the grounds of rules rather than the actual reason you are pissed which is because of what it was for. Same as libs would be if there was a school sanctioned pro-life "walkout.

IMO, if it is school sanctioned, it isn't a walkout. It is more along the lines of a state sanctioned and paid for political protest.

Which leads me to wonder, would the "students against abortion" walkout receive similar support?

I am really curious if other political protest have/will receive the same treatment, especially since state law mandates a whole lot of things as regards attendance and curriculum.

Yep.

I find it very iffy.

No idea.

 

[chipbennett]

See page 22, #3: Unexcused Absence/Truancy: Yep which could explain why he was suspended. He wasn't in his assigned area, there were two assigned areas he could have went to, outside or the other room. The room he wanted to stay in wasn't one of them. Were the other students in one of the assigned areas?

Yep, Occam's razor. Obtuse.

You start with the student who actually stayed in class, during his assigned class period, while ignoring the students who left class and who left the school building.

Nothing else matters, really, when you take such a position.

See also Page 23, #4: School Business: From reading the handbook, it appears to apply to leaving school grounds. Would a science teacher have to get a permission slip to take a class out to look at plants/bugs growing on school grounds? I never saw one for any of my kids or when I was a kid. Heck how you think it applies would also apply to a fire drill, or recess. Or even a student who had permission from a teacher to run to their car parked on campus to get a book or something they forgot in it.

Oh, and then there's this little gem, too

(page 24): Applies to attendance, the students were still in attendance.

The walkout students left the school building. What I quoted from page 24 specifically and explicitly addresses leaving the school building.

You are now claiming that students who left the school building didn't leave the school building, and that the student who was in his assigned classroom during his assigned class period was truant.

Absurd.

 

[chipbennett]

IMO, if it is school sanctioned, it isn't a walkout. It is more along the lines of a state sanctioned and paid for political protest.

Which leads me to wonder, would the "students against abortion" walkout receive similar support?

I am really curious if other political protest have/will receive the same treatment, especially since state law mandates a whole lot of things as regards attendance and curriculum.

Unless the school sent home notes to parents 24 hours in advance, and got them signed by the parents, then no, under the school's own rules, it wasn't school-sanctioned.

 

[Fargo]

Unless the school sent home notes to parents 24 hours in advance, and got them signed by the parents, then no, under the school's own rules, it wasn't school-sanctioned.

It is almost certain that the school violated it's own rules in how it did this, but that doesn't mean that the school didn't sanction it. It just makes it worse IMO.

 

[2cool9031]

I am wondering how many students would be there for a gun protest if they had it at the school on a Saturday. Half of them just want to get out of class.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

I am wondering how many students would be there for a gun protest if they had it at the school on a Saturday. Half of them just want to get out of class.

Agree. I doubt many would be willing to dedicate their Spring Break to hold a rally for their cause. Until you can show me some level of commitment, it's just a little toy protest from the kiddies.

 

[actaeon277]

Half?
You are being overly generous.
Maybe for the ones on TV.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yep, Occam's razor. Obtuse.

You start with the student who actually stayed in class, during his assigned class period, while ignoring the students who left class and who left the school building.

Nothing else matters, really, when you take such a position.



The walkout students left the school building. What I quoted from page 24 specifically and explicitly addresses leaving the school building.

You are now claiming that students who left the school building didn't leave the school building, and that the student who was in his assigned classroom during his assigned class period was truant.

Absurd.

Occam's razor, you're pissed because of what it was for, so you're grasping at straws.

It doesn't matter if that is his usually assigned classroom at the period. It wasn't at that specific time, on that specific day. School decides to wax the floor in a classroom during normal hours for some reason, does a student get to decide he doesn't want to go to a different room if so told? Or once again, a pep rally put on by the pep club/cheer leaders. Does any student get to decide they don't wish to attend or go to another assigned area and stay in the classroom of their choice? What if the pep rally is being held on the football field? How about if the marching band is going to state and puts on a performance for the students during the day?

Everything you listed was under attendance. We had similar if not the same rules when I was in school, do you think we had to go to the office and sign out when the gym teacher decided it was a nice enough day to go outside? Do you think we brought home notes to be signed? The answer is no. Field trips while they may be educational, the students are not in attendance at the school, are they, or on school grounds? They may be an excused absence, but the student is not in attendance. My daughter just had a field trip to the movie theater, they watched a movie.

Unless the school sent home notes to parents 24 hours in advance, and got them signed by the parents, then no, under the school's own rules, it wasn't school-sanctioned.

Maybe, maybe not. See above or below.

It is almost certain that the school violated it's own rules in how it did this, but that doesn't mean that the school didn't sanction it. It just makes it worse IMO.

Maybe, maybe not. If the students stayed on school grounds, with the authorization of the school such as during gym class. Would the school be required to send home notes 24 hrs in advance and have them signed? Or would that policy do you think only apply if the school was taking them off school grounds? How about signing out at the attendance office? If you don't think it would apply, why would it apply to the school taking them outside but still on school grounds be considered the school violating it's own rules? Especially if those rules were specifically listed under the attendance policy. How about if the school took them out to the football field for a pep rally, or to watch the marching band perform?

ETA Heck I went to a school that had pretty much the same policy. They also had open lunch, you could leave the school grounds on lunch break as long as you were back in time for class. If you were late it was considered a tardy, if you missed a period or didn't come back that day it was considered truancy. Didn't have to sign out at the attendance office or bring a note from home. Now if we were leaving for a Drs appointment or other reason, yep sure did.

 

[Libertarian01]

Principle's are directly answerable to only one group - the school board. And the school board is answerable to the electorate.

In a school boards case it needs to worry significantly about one voting block - parents. And it knows damn well that if 50% of the students walk out and receive serious repercussions that could affect college entrance, they will be out of a job.

This ignores entirely the massive workload that would be required to enforce all of the rules on a 50% walkout, perhaps hundreds of students. The number of hours of workload could be overwhelming, at least in the short run.

Ergo, they "choose" the lesser of two evils. They know the flood (ie. the walkout) is coming and trying to stop it would take massive resources, so they do the easy thing, they "allow" the walkout. They create a Plan B on the spot.

Is it within their authority to do so? I don't see why not. Prosecutors have the job to prosecute criminal cases, but many times they choose not to due to a variety of reasons. Police have the job of enforcing laws but we know they don't arrest everyone they legally could. They exercise judgement on where to push someone and where to let them go. In this case the school administrators chose not to enforce these rules and instead came up with plan B.

I'm with Houghmade. The school said if a student wasn't participating in the walkout go to section B. The special snowflake didn't want to go there, but no matter what it is NOT his choice! He doesn't get to decide where class is or even if it is taught. Presuming the school fell short of its legal obligation it would be up to his parents to sue the school, not up to him to decide where and when class will be. So even if he is 100% in the right HE still doesn't get to choose where to go in the school.

Imagine a school that had its teacher population cut by 25% due to the flu. The entire school system may not have enough teachers. So it comes up with a plan B. It says that for every class that has a missing teacher, the student is required to go to the gymnasium for that class time to self study. So a student may well go to the gym two (2) or three (3) times in a day until the flu ends. A student wouldn't be allowed to simply decide that his bloody history class is this period and he doesn't care about the teacher shortage. He is going to break the temporary rule and go to his class to be taught, even though the school said to go to the gymnasium.

All that said the school is being somewhat asinine for pushing the issue. Even if it is within their authority to do so they are well exposing themselves to a lawsuit where a jury may get to dissect the minutia of their actions. A stupid move even if it is legally allowed.

Regards,

Doug

Edit: PS - I 100% believe every single student who decided to walk out should have received at least the minimum punishment allowed by the rules. There should be consequences to choices made.