Support Amnesty?

[downzero]

In an effort to achieve these goals we need to find the illegals, and employment checks, rent and mortgage citizenship verification, student loan/business loan & drivers license citizenship verification, etc are all places we need to consider putting in new regulations (oh how I hate expanding the gub'mint) to identify illegal aliens.

Or we could do nothing, not expand government at all, and let them live--and work--here.

It seems obvious when I read crap like this that conservatives really don't want smaller government. They just want a different kind of big government.

There is absolutely no economic benefit to deporting these people and a huge amount of cost. That that means is that there is no rational purpose for deporting anyone.

The market brought them here and we should put them to work. We are the most productive nation on the planet and we ought to start acting like it.

Until this is viewed as a problem of economics and not one of nationalism, no meaningful reform is possible.

And to the poster who said it is "easy" to come here legally, you are mistaken. It is nowhere near as easy now as it was for our parents and grandparents to emigrate here. That is why we have the disaster that exists with illegal immigration.

I didn't vote in the poll because I don't think amnesty is necessarily the solution. I do think that we need to have a very large guest worker program if we're not going to grant amnesty to these people. And we should provide a path to permanent residence for people who have been here for many years.

 

[LEaSH]

It's a pretty hopeless situation - and I'm usually an optimist about most everything.

Illegals, Spanish speaking illegals, wont be going anywhere. They're here to stay so I'm dealing with that. It has vast negatives and positives, but it is up to the individual to prove their worth as a man or woman.

 

[Colt556]

For all of you Illegal lovers there is an article on the front page of the Columbus paper about an Illegal Hispanic male arrested for Domestic Abuse.He has been DEPORTED EIGHT TIMES for criminal activity!!! This is completely unacceptable. The Border is a sieve and these people use it as a revolving door. Close the damned thing and when these poor, work seeking, humble, roofer, CROOKS and THUGS are deported they will stay deported!

 

[downzero]

For all of you Illegal lovers there is an article on the front page of the Columbus paper about an Illegal Hispanic male arrested for Domestic Abuse.He has been DEPORTED EIGHT TIMES for criminal activity!!! This is completely unacceptable. The Border is a sieve and these people use it as a revolving door. Close the damned thing and when these poor, work seeking, humble, roofer, CROOKS and THUGS are deported they will stay deported!

This is a thread about amnesty. Securing the border is an entirely different matter. Even if the border was completely closed tomorrow, there are already tens of millions here, illegally.

 

[TopDog]

Amnesty is probably the best answer. Mass deportation is not feasible. First, it is predicated on completely closing the border, or you will simply be chasing your tale. No politician is going to do that. Even if it were possible to vote in the number of congressmen and senators necessary to make such a drastic policy change, so much time would have elapsed that illegals will be even more deeply rooted. Initially I was going to say that their population would have increased, but illegal immigration is actually trending down and has been for several years. Neither party is going to put the political capital into a campaign to effectively deal with the border. No one ever has, and I don't see that changing.

Second, lets say the border is closed. Now, the federal government has to undertake a massive 50 state sweep and set up new agencies to deal with 12-20 million new criminals. Someone is going to have to pay for this. It would be interesting to try and calculate the comparison costs of deportation vs. getting these people in the system and paying taxes, many of which already do.

Fletch hit the nail on the head in his thread about the roofers he hired.

Make it easier to get a job and harder to get a handout, and the problem solves itself.

Amnesty is the worst possible answer, you are simply rewarding a corrupt government and criminal invaders for breaking the law. (of course that is how our government has worked for years, rewarding criminals for breaking the law) The best solution is to simply stop giving everything free to them, stop the free ride and they will leave on their own. Stop paying them to breed, stop the welfare, stop kissing their ass's and treat them like the rest of us that have to pay our own way. Make them pay their full weight in tax's if they work. They will leave on their own if we stop giving them everything while they contribute nothing to this society but crime.

 

[Colt556]

This is a thread about amnesty. Securing the border is an entirely different matter. Even if the border was completely closed tomorrow, there are already tens of millions here, illegally.

The two work hand in hand. Give amnesty to the millions of illegals here and millions more will flood through the porous border seeking amnesty too. The borders must be secured to prevent further invasion of millions of illegals.

 

[downzero]

Why is it that everyone posting on the "other side" of the debate has glorious grammar and spelling errors every time they post? This is just an observation I've made, but I really wonder if there isn't a strong positive correlation between education and one's views on this issue.

The two work hand in hand. Give amnesty to the millions of illegals here and millions more will flood through the porous border seeking amnesty too. The borders must be secured to prevent further invasion of millions of illegals.

Or the law changed so that the millions could come here legally and contribute to our economy.

What I find ridiculous is the same conservatives who oppose welfare think we ought to use "protectionism" for American labor. Why shouldn't they compete with anyone who is willing to do the job?

 

[Colt556]

Why is it that everyone posting on the "other side" of the debate has glorious grammar and spelling errors every time they post? This is just an observation I've made, but I really wonder if there isn't a strong positive correlation between education and one's views on this issue.

Really? Nice retort. I didn't know that the internet was grading our post now. I have a Bachelors Degree from Indiana University. A persons education really doesn't have much to do with what is right or wrong. Some of the most idiotic people I know, many on this forum, are well educated.

 

[hoosiertriangle]

I might consider some form of letting illegal aliens stay here and move toward membership, but it would require them paying a significant fine, receiving a felony conviction, and going into the process line for citizenship in last place, and losing the right to vote. The other option would be for them to return home and legally immigrate. I think they should get the choice. Staying here with those repercussions should do alot to discourage others to come for amnesty plus block those 10-20 million persons from becoming a powerful voting block.

 

[hoosiertriangle]

This is post is out of line. Some arguments may have significantly less persuasion than other, but painting with such a broad brush will not help others see any merits in your own arguments.

Why is it that everyone posting on the "other side" of the debate has glorious grammar and spelling errors every time they post? This is just an observation I've made, but I really wonder if there isn't a strong positive correlation between education and one's views on this issue.

 

[SavageEagle]

Why is it that everyone posting on the "other side" of the debate has glorious grammar and spelling errors every time they post? This is just an observation I've made, but I really wonder if there isn't a strong positive correlation between education and one's views on this issue.



Or the law changed so that the millions could come here legally and contribute to our economy.

What I find ridiculous is the same conservatives who oppose welfare think we ought to use "protectionism" for American labor. Why shouldn't they compete with anyone who is willing to do the job?

So because I don't use proper ENGLISH Grammar and spelling, I'm stupid and that's why I don't want illegals with criminal history in my Country? Yea, OK!

So you want to change the law. How so?

You want to skip background checks? You want to skip green cards? You want to not require having a job lined up first? How about just open the border and let EVERYONE come and go as they please? Maybe we can let every HAMAS and Taliban and Al Queda fighter in this Country too. Let them get Food Stamps, medicaid, and Social Security so they're free to spend their funding on bombs and bullets?

Are you PRAYING for another terrorist attack or that foreign people invade and take over our Country? Cause that's what "Amnesty" and "Open Borders" accomplish. Please go back and look at world history to see how many empires and countries fell due to unregulated immigration.

 

[Fletch]

Amnesty is the worst possible answer, you are simply rewarding a corrupt government and criminal invaders for breaking the law. (of course that is how our government has worked for years, rewarding criminals for breaking the law) The best solution is to simply stop giving everything free to them, stop the free ride and they will leave on their own. Stop paying them to breed, stop the welfare, stop kissing their ass's and treat them like the rest of us they have to pay our own way. Make them pay their full weight in tax's if they work. They will leave on their own if we stop giving them everything while they contribute nothing to this society but crime.

You start off attacking amnesty, but wind up with pro-amnesty arguments. "No handouts, pay your taxes like the rest of us" is pro-amnesty. "They'll leave on their own if they don't like it" is also pro-amnesty. So far, nobody in this thread is saying that we should just wave them on through; we're making the exact arguments you wound up with. I've added the extra bonus of making them pay extra into the system by way of a fine.

Those caught perpetrating violence can and should be dealt with like any other violent criminal. Those who simply crossed an imaginary line in the sand to work in our economy haven't done anything wrong, just illegal. If we were a nation of private property, they might be trespassers, but we're not. Government-owned land is its own crime against private property, so I'm not particularly upset about encroachments against it.

 

[downzero]

Some of the most idiotic people I know, many on this forum, are well educated.

Well anti-intellectualism was part of many Marxist camps as well. I'm just pointing that out so you know the company you're in.

 

[downzero]

This is post is out of line. Some arguments may have significantly less persuasion than other, but painting with such a broad brush will not help others see any merits in your own arguments.

Reading comprehension is key. I didn't draw any conclusion at all in my post--just presented a question and speculated as to the answer.

 

[downzero]

So because I don't use proper ENGLISH Grammar and spelling, I'm stupid and that's why I don't want illegals with criminal history in my Country? Yea, OK!

So you want to change the law. How so?

You want to skip background checks? You want to skip green cards? You want to not require having a job lined up first? How about just open the border and let EVERYONE come and go as they please? Maybe we can let every HAMAS and Taliban and Al Queda fighter in this Country too. Let them get Food Stamps, medicaid, and Social Security so they're free to spend their funding on bombs and bullets?

Are you PRAYING for another terrorist attack or that foreign people invade and take over our Country? Cause that's what "Amnesty" and "Open Borders" accomplish. Please go back and look at world history to see how many empires and countries fell due to unregulated immigration.

I never said anything at all about open borders. Reading comprehension is key.

Isn't being a terrorist illegal already? I thought it was. Maybe you could check for me?

When you figure out how to do background checks on foreign nationals, inform the state department, CBP, and ICE. I'm sure they'd love to know the details of your genius.

Was the first 100 years of the United States one of those countries that fell, or is it just that you hate Mexicans in 2010? There's certainly no originalist argument for closed borders or regulated immigration, and no mention of it in the Constitution.

 

[E5RANGER375]

killem all. put them on a reservation and nuke them.

 

[Colt556]

Well anti-intellectualism was part of many Marxist camps as well. I'm just pointing that out so you know the company you're in.

No, you're taking a swipe at people that don't write and compose their thoughts as well as you. Many wordsmiths are very arrogant.

 

[mrjarrell]

killem all. put them on a reservation and nuke them.

Wow, genocide's your best answer? Bet you and Nordic get along famously.

 

[downzero]

No, you're taking a swipe at people that don't write and compose their thoughts as well as you. Many wordsmiths are very arrogant.

That's not true at all. I'm merely speculating as to the possibility that people who hold different views lack the analytical tools to understand this as an economic problem.

Your opinion has to be based on something. If it's based on half-truths and a glorious lack of the analytical tools necessary to understand the task at hand, it's almost inevitable that the conclusion will be wrong.

 

[Colt556]

I never said anything at all about open borders. Reading comprehension is key.

Isn't being a terrorist illegal already? I thought it was. Maybe you could check for me?

When you figure out how to do background checks on foreign nationals, inform the state department, CBP, and ICE. I'm sure they'd love to know the details of your genius.

Another swipe at someones abilities. Why is it that your side can do it without a care but is the first to claim personal attack if it's used against you? Being an Illegal alien is ILLEGAL TOO! I'm amazed at how easy it is for you guys to decide what laws are ok to break and what laws are must be enforced. The road to anarchy is coming up quickly.