Support Amnesty?

[neil221211]

I wish everyone on here had some idea of how the immigration process works. First off for the folks here that think as soon as you marry someone from a different country that makes them legal. NEWSFLASH!!! IT DOES NOT!!! I've been with my wife for 5 years, married for four. She came here legally with a visa. That is one thing that is not very easy to get in most countries. The reason being is because if that person does not have a reason to come back they most likely won't get a visa. She got a tourist visa and came up here then I met her and later we found out she was pregnant. After our son was born we got married a month after. After awhile we started looking in to getting her legal.

If someone want to make a lot of money become a lawyer and specialize in immigration. These people charge a fortune for their services. We talked to one in Indy and just for my wife he wanted around $4000. Then we talked to her uncle who is American and married to her aunt. We later found out that we could do the required paperwork for way less than 4k. In total we probably spent around $1700 after it was all said and done.

So even if the govt does pass some sort of amnesty these people will still have to go through the same process. It's not like Harry Potter and you wave a wand and they are all legal. Aside from this not all illegals are from south of the border. This may be where they enter the country but we have people here from all different nationalities who are illegal. Been to any Chinese restaurants lately?

The one thing I agree with is the ones who are here in our jails and prisons need to go back home. Another thing is if you get all of these illegal immigrants in the system and paying the same taxes we do then it will only help out with some of the issues we have now. Im sure 30 - 60 million people can pay in a lot of tax dollars.

 

[6birds]

Savage Eagle, they're local Indy residents... So show them spots in the city.

Admittedly, they live in the comfort zone which, for one is Fishers - So I cant expect them to be as knowledgable of the city life.


6bird, Im just curious, why ad hominems against SE? He's spoke from experience, and you?

My family is running a 3rd generation produce company, 6 farms, in two states, (WI and MN, Packer-Viking games are a blast!), and have hundreds of workers from countries around the world. Some of the families stay on in the community for the year, others move with the work. Lots of experience here.

I bought a business 12 years ago, and now have over 60 full time employees, and 60 temps, so yeah, I know how to learn new skills and better my self, not blame the White house, a tomato picker, or that guy that roofed Fletch's house.

As for living in the "city" that's a choice you made, not me. Is it distressed because if the "illegals", or because of the hethens?

 

[irishfan]

If they are not here legally then they should have NO services that are paid for by American tax payers.

 

[POC]

hethens?

Ow, Ow, he SPELLED something wrong. He's just ignorant, you can't believe anything he says....

 

[Fletch]

If they are not here legally then they should have NO services that are paid for by American tax payers.

Nobody should have such services.

 

[POC]

Nobody should have such services.

I agree with you (there's a first time for everything I guess!); so wouldn't you say ESPECIALLY for those that aren't citizens?

 

[downzero]

If they are not here legally then they should have NO services that are paid for by American tax payers.

Let's take it a step further.

"Nobody should receive any services paid for by the American taxpayers."

 

[downzero]

so wouldn't you say ESPECIALLY for those that aren't citizens?

No. I'd say they're just as indefensible when given away to foreign nationals as domestic ones.

Nobody is entitled to someone else's property. My neighbors are no more eligible to have my property transferred to them than the illegals down the street.

 

[The Keymaster]

There is a legal way to do things, and there is an illegal way to do things. People should not be allowed to break the law by entering our country without the proper documentation, and then be rewarded with a path toward citizenship. I, as a citizen am expected to follow the laws of our country. Why should non citizens in the country illegally not have to follow the same laws.

 

[level.eleven]

I agree with you (there's a first time for everything I guess!); so wouldn't you say ESPECIALLY for those that aren't citizens?

It doesn't matter to me where the money goes after men and women calling themselves government stick a gun in my face and demand money. The men and women calling themselves government could pocket their plunder for all I care. Its the gun in my face that is the problem.

 

[downzero]

There is a legal way to do things, and there is an illegal way to do things. People should not be allowed to break the law by entering our country without the proper documentation, and then be rewarded with a path toward citizenship. I, as a citizen am expected to follow the laws of our country. Why should non citizens in the country illegally not have to follow the same laws.

So it's always wrong to break the law?

Fornication is illegal in Illinois. Should I go to jail for it?

How about sodomy prior to 2003? Should a man go to jail for getting a bj from his wife?

After all, it's illegal.

 

[Fletch]

It doesn't matter to me where the money goes after men and women calling themselves government stick a gun in my face and demand money. The men and women calling themselves government could pocket their plunder for all I care. Its the gun in my face that is the problem.

QFT. And this seems to be the main point of dissension between libertarians and Republicans. Being robbed is not patriotic or commendable.

 

[rmabrey]

And for the record, the possessive form of "its" is "its," not "it's."

actually the possesive form of "its" is "its"

not "its," or "its'" or "it's"

 

[jbombelli]

This thread is an unfortunate waste of time. Half or more of what everybody wants will NEVER come to pass. NEVER. Seriously. You guys should spend less time daydreaming about impossibilities and actually try to think of something workable, that has a chance to actually pass, and will have long-term sustainability.

Deport them all? Never happen.

Shoot them when they cross the border? Never happen.

I mean, come on!!!

 

[irishfan]

This thread is an unfortunate waste of time. Half or more of what everybody wants will NEVER come to pass. NEVER.

Deport them all? Never happen.

Shoot them when they cross the border? Never happen.

I mean, come on!!!

A guy can dream

 

[sj kahr k40]

It's hard to argue that the laws don't work when we haven't been following the laws, enforce the current laws and then we can tweak or repeal those laws that don't work. First we must close the borders to defend against terrorist that are seeking to infiltrate from Mexico.

 

[rambone]

This needs to be said.

The constitution does not create rights or grant rights.

The constitution is the guideline for what the Government may not do. To Anyone.

And it applies always, no matter what. It doesn't matter what kind of aliens are coming in to the country, no matter what terrorists decide to blow up, no matter where muslims decide to build a worship center, no matter how intoxicated a driver looks, no matter how bloody a man's hands are, no matter how unpopular protesters' signs are.... It does not matter.

There are some things the Government cannot do, to anyone, ever. It doesn't matter if cops witness a murder. They still must give the suspect due process.

The Government must obey the constitution. If you think the constitution should be suspended, then you are a fan of big government, tyranny, and statism. At least be honest.

And we don't allow our friendly federal agents the privilege to shoot people on sight. Show me that one in the Constitution, Judge Dredd.

 

[Fletch]

Reps in manure mode, or I'd hit ya with one.

 

[rambone]

Some work, some do not. Some don't have homes. Some are predators that live off the grid and are the cause of unsolved crimes because their fingerprints/DNA/etc are not on file.

That is a good example of a Government that scares the cr@p out of me.

I don't want the Feds keeping DNA databases of us, no matter what country we originated in.

 

[Archaic_Entity]

I'd say the problem comes somewhat from the morality of the law rather than the law itself. Like downzero said, should fornication be illegal? In today's societal standard and moral compass, no.

One could, I suppose, consider the fact that companies hire the illegals regardless of the law, based upon the fact that the labor is far cheaper and equally effective. From that standpoint, and from the idea that a company is there to produce/sell/trade their goods/services for the highest profit margin (for the most part), then it stands to reason that they ought to hire the cheapest labor to maximize those profits. If the cheapest labor is illegal labor, then clearly that's who they should hire. If the company is not concerned about the legality of the situation. It is obvious that there are plenty of places that do this, which is a major reason that illegals come here in the first place.

I have a few questions to those of you who stand very opposed to the suggestions presented by Fletch and downzero (which, I remind you, are not absolute amnesty without legal recourse), and it's based upon the points raised. According to you, these illegals are not working and living 30 to a house, but are also managing to send money back home to Mexico.
1) How are they paying to live there? Obviously the money comes from somewhere.
2) How are they sending money they don't make back to Mexico?
3) How do they support themselves? 30 mouths is a lot to feed.
If you tell me it's because of illegal activities like drug-trafficking, then they're supporting the DEA. So they're funding some jobs somehow for legal Americans. And this stands back to the point that's been argued ad nauseum about legalizing drug trade (which I am for) to remove that as a staple means. If you tell me that some of them work, then I ask: How are they paid? You assume it's cash under the table. Then they must purchase things with that, so then they must pay some tax. If they get a paycheck, then it must has some SSN attached to it. So now they pay income tax. Even if they don't file tax returns, they're still paying some taxes.

So now we've determined that: Yes, they do make money in some way/shape/form. And yes, they pay taxes in some way/shape/form. Therefore, your premise that they don't support themselves or the American economy in any way is unsubstantiated.

As to the business ethics of the issue. If you really want to give the government more power, then you ramp up the penalties for hiring illegal immigrants. Make it something so terrifying they wouldn't dream of hiring illegals. Just don't come crying back here when the government has more power than you wanted it to.