Syntech Defense

[Disposable Heart]

So you can't disagree without name calling?

Don't see where I ever did. I called your idea uncivil, unethical to animals and foolhardy, but believe you have a good analytical mind based on the correlation you drew from the rimfire cartridge performance and scaling up. I am not going to waste any more of my time attempting to reason with you, especially if this is the route of civil discourse you wish to pursue, specifically the fallacy of quoting out of context. Have a good day and enjoy INGO as a source of information!

 

[DadSmith]

You do know people kill deer with hard cast 357magnum bullets right? The 350 legend would be more powerful than that.

That's basically a fmj. And is legal to use by state law. Guess the state is unethical too.

 

[Bigtanker]

Comparative sizing. The .22LR you're shooting a raccoon with is the rough equivalent of shooting a human with a 12 gauge slug. For the size, weight and construction of the critter, compared to our size, weight and construction.

Humans are MUCH more robust comapred to lighter game, our bones are VERY durable and we have a physiological system of shock management, flight-or-fight and pain management that your smaller game do not have.

I will say, while I trust your experience on segmented HP for small game, I will say that in my experience, everything I've shot with any .22LR didn't make it far or died on spot. The rapidity of their death was directly correlated to where I shot them. A gut shot on a raccoon I did some time ago at a friend's farm with a CCI Stinger made for a long death on the animal, whereas I've shot some rabbits with LRN Thunderbolts with DOA results.

There is absolutely no correlation between a human and a small game animal, so designs revolving around disposing of small game will not translate to scaled up performance against humans or light skinned deer. If we are pulling out anecdotal stuff, I did have a friend in Pennsylvania shoot a deer with the Winchester fragmenting slug (akin to your CCI Segmented .22, about the same exact concept) and he never got to recover the animal as it ran away unfazed with a chest shot. Anecdotal evidence aside, I think it is sufficient evidence, combined with the myriad of testing and shootings done in the "light and fast" days of the 80s and more recently (Glaser slugs, AET advanced energy transfer pistol rounds, prefragmented RIP rounds, etc...) that prefragmented rounds are marginal on humans and only did shot placement or psychological trauma won those fights.

Humans also have a nasty habit, based on our intelligence, confound the thing, of hiding behind things, operating motor vehicles, interacting with barriers, etc... that would render a prefragmented slug marginal if not completely useless. People can claim that "I'll never have a need for a barrier blind round" or similar, not understanding that things like arms, phones, other barriers other than structures or cars, an offer a intermediate barrier to prevent prefragmented slug performance.

My thinking as well.

Pushing a bullet faster than it was designed for will generally give you far less penetration. Take the 10mm for instance. Using a 155 gr Gold Dot, designed for the .40 S&W, and push it over 1,300 fps only gives about 8" of penetration. (Example given in the article below).

https://rangehot.com/10mm-auto-ballistic-test-updated/

The picture shows what happens when the bullet is driven too fast. The chart has the measurements to back it up.

If you push this segmenting bullet at over twice the fps of what it was designed for, I see it as a huge, shallow wound not getting to the vitals of the deer. Once the bullet hits bone, I don't see it fragmenting. If it's not hard cast lead (which I don't know if it is or not) it will just not go deep enough.

 

[DadSmith]

My thinking as well.

Pushing a bullet faster than it was designed for will generally give you far less penetration. Take the 10mm for instance. Using a 155 gr Gold Dot, designed for the .40 S&W, and push it over 1,300 fps only gives about 8" of penetration. (Example given in the article below).

https://rangehot.com/10mm-auto-ballistic-test-updated/

The picture shows what happens when the bullet is driven too fast. The chart has the measurements to back it up.

If you push this segmenting bullet at over twice the fps of what it was designed for, I see it as a huge, shallow wound not getting to the vitals of the deer. Once the bullet hits bone, I don't see it fragmenting. If it's not hard cast lead (which I don't know if it is or not) it will just not go deep enough.

However, this bullet does not expand to .75" or bigger causing drag on the whole. The core stays solid and would act like a hard cast bullet and punch through. Is my theory.
Still will have to test it for stability and make sure it doesn't break apart. That will kill the who idea fast.
Compare a 40 S&W 180gr FMJ to a 10mm 180 fmj for penetration there is a huge difference. 40 S&W 180gr FMJ +p is around 1050 fps. 10mm 180gr fmj around 1300 fps. 10mm wins penetration every shot. Punch it up to 200gr even more penetration.

 

[Bigtanker]

However, this bullet does not expand to .75" or bigger causing drag on the whole. The core stays solid and would act like a hard cast bullet and punch through. Is my theory.

Theory's are ok. Personally, I just don't see testing a theory on a deer. The factory hunting load from Winchester for the .350 Legend will kill a deer with a well placed shot. Do you need the deer more dead with this handload? Just my opinion but this load seems to be a "just in case I don't hit it where I am supposed to" load. And that is taking a risk that when the bullet does hit where you aimed, it doesn't do enough to humanly take the animal down quickly.

These ammo companies spend a lot of money on finding the best projectile to do a given task. This Syntech bullet is not a new idea, just a refreshed design from the past. If it was the "drop the deer dead in it's tracks" bullet, it would have already been out on the shelves.

 

[DadSmith]

Theory's are ok. Personally, I just don't see testing a theory on a deer. The factory hunting load from Winchester for the .350 Legend will kill a deer with a well placed shot. Do you need the deer more dead with this handload? Just my opinion but this load seems to be a "just in case I don't hit it where I am supposed to" load. And that is taking a risk that when the bullet does hit where you aimed, it doesn't do enough to humanly take the animal down quickly.

These ammo companies spend a lot of money on finding the best projectile to do a given task. This Syntech bullet is not a new idea, just a refreshed design from the past. If it was the "drop the deer dead in it's tracks" bullet, it would have already been out on the shelves.

A 22lr can drop a deer dead in it's tracks. Like all shooting 100% is shot placement.

In theory, this means that the core of the bullet gets deeper penetration, but the trocars break off and puncture vital structures like organs, veins and arteries and so on.