Taking the wife to the handgun range or friend who has no LTCH...

[Michiganmilitia]

This question was inspired by one very similar that was just posted. But that one was more about the friend who had a record.

When I get my LTCH, can I take my wife to the range who has no LTCH, and can she shoot my handgun? The only crime she has committed is marrying me

Same question for a friend who has a gun but no LTCH (and has no record), is it possible to transport his gun for him in my car?

 

[clgustaveson]

Can you carry a gun not owned by you?

Yes.

Can she loan you the gun to take to the range?

I am not 100% sure on that one but if the answer is yes, then you can.

 

[LawDog76]

Kinda covered before

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../117825-are_ltchs_ever_checked_the_range.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...my_friend_to_the_range_if_he_has_no_ltch.html

 

[kludge]

When I get my LTCH, can I take my wife to the range who has no LTCH, and can she shoot my handgun?

Opinions vary. It's not specifically spelled out in the law, but I've never heard of anyone being arrested or prosecuted.

 

[eldirector]

Some ranges seem to have "must have LTCH" rules, even if they are not posted or strictly enforced. The thread quoted above (https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../117825-are_ltchs_ever_checked_the_range.html) has several instances where folks were hassled.

Any chance you can visit a private range? I have taken un-licensed friends to the range several times w/o issue. His/her firearms are in MY possession in the back on my car, so no problems. I've always had the "friend's" guns cased and unloaded, just to be safe.

 

[Michiganmilitia]

Any chance you can visit a private range? I have taken un-licensed friends to the range several times w/o issue. His/her firearms are in MY possession in the back on my car, so no problems. I've always had the "friend's" guns cased and unloaded, just to be safe.

Not unless I want to pay a big membership fee. That is a good idea though. It's one of those things where she want's to "try it before she buys it." She is a little apprehensive about handguns, but is very interested in shooting one. I think I can win her over with a positive shooting experience. Maybe I'll see if one of my friend's who has a small amount of land outside of city limits will let us go down there.

 

[Security122]

...
Can she loan you the gun to take to the range?
I am not 100% sure on that one but if the answer is yes, then you can.

 

[ATM]

Yes and yes.

 

[buzzined]

I take my 11yr old sun to the range to shoot my guns so don't see why the wouldn't let your wife shoot or your friend.

A friend of mine also brings his girlfriend who has no carry permit.

 

[StandingReady]

IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.


I think you would be alright, as it would be legally possessed if you were loaned the handgun and what firearms you had were legally possessed.

I don't believe that she would not be able to shoot it at the range, just that she could not carry it to or from the range, and it would have to be in your possession. If you read the permit info, it speaks specifically to transporting to and from the range.

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/2010_Firearms_licensing_FAQs(1).pdf
Do I have to have a permit to take my handgun target practicing?
Yes. Statute provides a less expensive permit for people that only want a limited license that
allows them to carry the handgun for the purposes of hunting or target shooting.
The only exemptions to a carry permit for an ordinary citizen are to possess the weapon on the
person’s property or business or to transport a newly purchased weapon to your home or
business, while moving from one residence or business to another or to take the weapon for
repair and back. Indiana law states that the weapon must be transported unloaded in a secure
wrapper.

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/2010_Firearms_Fee_Schedule(1).pdf

 

[Michiganmilitia]

Thanks Standingready, that helps a lot. What is defined as a secure wrapper? Does it have to be locked?

 

[moischmoe]

Thanks Standingready, that helps a lot. What is defined as a secure wrapper? Does it have to be locked?

Here is a good example. Yes, it's best if it is locked.

Oh, my bad, I thought you said "secure rapper."

 

[StandingReady]

I would tell you that anything you can do to prove that it is in a "secure wrapper" would be a good idea. If it is not it a lockable (locked) box, make sure that it is secured with a gun lock. Remember that the burden is on you, and anything you can do to meet, or exceed, that standard is good for you to be able to articulate.

 

[schafe]

Think of it like this..... she is in possession of the handgun (when shooting, handling)+she is not on her own property,(she's at the range)+ she is not your child+ she has no LTCH = Illegal. The range folks don't care if you have a LTCH or not.They care about getting your money, and that you don't shoot anyone.They are not required to ask for your LTCH. It may be a technical violation, and perhaps difficult to prosecute, but a violation, nonetheless. I think most on here would say "just get the license"...You are not forced to carry or own if you don't like it or want to.And the purchase of a LTCH reinforces that citizens believe in the 2nd Ammendment, so it's money well spent, anyway.

 

[ATM]

...she is in possession of the handgun (when shooting, handling)...

But not sole possession if the license holder is in close proximity.

There is some case law discussion which would likely apply beyond the simplest reading of the code.

 

[StandingReady]

Think of it like this..... she is in possession of the handgun (when shooting, handling)+she is not on her own property,(she's at the range)+ she is not your child+ she has no LTCH = Illegal. The range folks don't care if you have a LTCH or not.They care about getting your money, and that you don't shoot anyone.They are not required to ask for your LTCH. It may be a technical violation, and perhaps difficult to prosecute, but a violation, nonetheless. I think most on here would say "just get the license"...You are not forced to carry or own if you don't like it or want to.And the purchase of a LTCH reinforces that citizens believe in the 2nd Ammendment, so it's money well spent, anyway.

You do not need a LTCH to legally shoot at a range. You need one (carry permit or target practice permit) to transport a loaded, or readily loaded, firearm (i.e. not unloaded and in secure wrapper) to and from a range. If you look at the statute, it states that a permit is not necessary in a house or a fixed place of business.

IC 35-47-2-4
Qualified or unlimited licenses to carry handguns; fees; exemptions from payment of fees
Sec. 4. (a) Licenses to carry handguns shall be either qualified or unlimited, and are valid for:
(1) four (4) years from the date of issue in the case of a four (4) year license; or
(2) the life of the individual receiving the license in the case of a lifetime license.
A qualified license shall be issued for hunting and target practice. The superintendent may adopt rules imposing limitations on the use and carrying of handguns under a license when handguns are carried by a licensee as a condition of employment. Unlimited licenses shall be issued for the purpose of the protection of life and property.
(b) In addition to the application fee, the fee for:
(1) a qualified license shall be:
(A) five dollars ($5) for a four (4) year qualified license;
(B) twenty-five dollars ($25) for a lifetime qualified license from a person who does not currently possess a valid Indiana handgun license; or
(C) twenty dollars ($20) for a lifetime qualified license from a person who currently possesses a valid Indiana handgun license; and
(2) an unlimited license shall be:
(A) thirty dollars ($30) for a four (4) year unlimited license;
(B) seventy-five dollars ($75) for a lifetime unlimited license from a person who does not currently possess a valid Indiana handgun license; or
(C) sixty dollars ($60) for a lifetime unlimited license from a person who currently possesses a valid Indiana handgun license.

IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons
authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the
national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly
authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United
States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their
place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry
handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company
business;
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing,
repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative
of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying
a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a
secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or
fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his
dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one
dwelling or business to another.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

If the non-LTCH holding person is shooting in the presence of and with the consent of the LTCH permit holder, there is no violation, barring any statutory illegality (felon, convicted of domestic battery, certain protection orders, etc).

 

[ATM]

...If you look at the statute, it states that a permit is not necessary in a house or a fixed place of business...

No, it doesn't state that.

You don't need a license to carry in your house or your fixed place of business.

 

[moischmoe]

You do not need a LTCH to legally shoot at a range. You need one (carry permit or target practice permit) to transport a loaded, or readily loaded, firearm (i.e. not unloaded and in secure wrapper) to and from a range. If you look at the statute, it states that a permit is not necessary in a house or a fixed place of business.

Cool! I have a LTCH, but my friend doesn't. So it's Ok if I drive with him to Wal-Mart and then give him my gun to OC in the store?

I don't think so. ATM is right. You don't need a license to carry in your house or your fixed place of business.

 

[StandingReady]

If you are in my house, or on my property, and I let you, you can carry a firearm w/o a permit. If you are at a range for the purpose of target practice, I don't believe that applies. Like I said, if your kid is shooting your handgun at the range, can he be arrested for no LTCH? Wal-Mart is a public place, and if you are carrying (i.e. transporting) a loaded gun around the store, that would be a violation. Shooting at the range is hardly transporting a firearm, especially if there is a valid permit holder there. I think someone already hit on the fact that there is more to this than just what it reads, and that there has to be some case law to clarify it. If the firearm is transported properly, then opened, loaded and used at a range, then unloaded, locked up properly before leaving, I do not believe that it would be a violation of this law. I think possessing it improperly during transportation is more the issue. Does anyone happen to know if Debs, Blythes, or any other shop with an indoor range requires a LTCH to test a firearm before buying?

BTW, I agree that getting a permit is the easiest way to rectify this. I do think that it would be hard to prosecute if it were transported properly as there is not even any clear exception for people under 18 to "legally" shoot at a range since they are ineligible for a permit...

 

[moischmoe]

Like I said, if your kid is shooting your handgun at the range, can he be arrested for no LTCH?
I do think that it would be hard to prosecute if it were transported properly as there is not even any clear exception for people under 18 to "legally" shoot at a range since they are ineligible for a permit...

Check IC 35-47-10 "Children and Firearms"

Wal-Mart is a public place, and if you are carrying (i.e. transporting) a loaded gun around the store, that would be a violation. Shooting at the range is hardly transporting a firearm, especially if there is a valid permit holder there.

True, I used the Wal-mart example because earlier you said, "If you look at the statute, it states that a permit is not necessary in a house or a fixed place of business" Now you saying it's not legal to walk around in the store. OK, so if me and my non-LTCH friend are sitting in a restaurant, is it OK for him to have my gun while are are just sitting there, eating, and not transporting it around the restaurant?