TAPS Act

[INPatriot]

There’s red flag laws in wide use now. Protective orders. That one gets abused often enough. It’s meant to help people have a remedy against abusive relationships. But many people file an epo against their spouse just to spite them. I work with a guy who went through a bitter divorce. She tried to get him fired. That didn’t work so she filed an epo on the guy, and then called his boss and told him about the epo. That almost worked. Hell hath no fury.

From a legislative standpoint, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

From a revenge standpoint, red flag laws could be used as such and that poses a threat to law abiding citizens being targeted.

 

[jamil]

The video at this link shows the care they used during the seizure: https://www.wthitv.com/content/news...uns-ammo-from-Vigo-county-home-491319211.html

Pay attention to 2:36 in the video.

Jeez, that neighbor. "I was told the whole neighborhood could go up." The words of a whisperer are like dainty morsels, And they go down into the innermost parts of the body. People can believe all kinds of things when they build one fear upon another.

 

[2A_Tom]

They also confiscated his ammo.

It would seem that this bailment is for the sole benefit of the bailee (gvt.), so great care. No reason this cannot be determined under the same cause number as the "red flag" order.

That video is a perfect example of what the state calls great care.

ETA There used to be several videos on you tube about getting guns back from police damaged, but they will not come up in a search.

 

[HoughMade]

They also confiscated his ammo.

That video is a perfect example of what the state calls great care.

Not for them to decide. If damage is caused, a court decides if they exercised proper care. The idea is that they have to pay for the damage they cause by not exercising the requisite level of care. It's an after-the-fact analysis in every situation.

I guess we can hope and wish that everyone does everything they should all the time, but experience tells me that if you want to be compensated for damage caused by another, you have to do something about it.

 

[2A_Tom]

Hough, I did not know about criminal charges. What were they?

 

[2A_Tom]

Not for them to decide. If damage is caused, a court decides if they exercised proper care. The idea is that they have to pay for the damage they cause by not exercising the requisite level of care. It's an after-the-fact analysis in every situation.

I guess we can hope and wish that everyone does everything they should all the time, but experience tells me that if you want to be compensated for damage caused by another, you have to do something about it.

Sounds like more money for lawyers, just sayin'.

 

[2A_Tom]

Would a living will work to give all of my guns and ammo into the care of my son-in-law if I was ever found incompetent.

 

[Floivanus]

Hough, I did not know about criminal charges. What were they?

public record if you want to search for it

 

[Topshot]

Another attorney's thoughts on red flag laws (should be open to the public for a few more days)

 

[churchmouse]

Sounds like more money for lawyers, just sayin'.

Pretty much. Just add more to the burden of what should be done anyway.

 

[2A_Tom]

I agree 100% with the lawyer in the article posted by Topshot. Red flag laws are about the second fourth and fifth, but my biggest peoblem with them is with the sixth and I do not believe we put enough emphasis on that.

It is not enough to have a Star Chamber type hearing with affidavits and judges and all of a sudden you are in the system for tens of thousands of dollars and guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Then you have to fight with thousands of dollars to get your stuff back which may be incomplete and damaged. Then you have to spend thousands of dollars to get made whole.

Missed you at the NWI youth shoot TS. I realize you had other commitments. Hope to break bread with you some day.

 

[BugI02]

Not for them to decide. If damage is caused, a court decides if they exercised proper care. The idea is that they have to pay for the damage they cause by not exercising the requisite level of care. It's an after-the-fact analysis in every situation.

I guess we can hope and wish that everyone does everything they should all the time, but experience tells me that if you want to be compensated for damage caused by another, you have to do something about it.

This is kind of ridiculous. Not everything can be fixed with money. If the state confiscated your wedding ring and then lost it, would you feel made whole by the dollar value of the gold that was in it? If the state confiscated your perfect maple stocked 1915 Swede mauser (numbers matching) and then lost track of it, would you feel made whole by whatever the state decided it was worth? If the state confiscated a Garand carried by a family member in The Two and lost or damaged it, would you feel made whole by money or new parts?

I think not

 

[2A_Tom]

First, what is the IC that backs up this case?

The standard of care a bailee owes a bailor is measured by the amount of benefit each party derives from the bailment… The bailee must use:

(1) slight care when the bailment is for the sole benefit of the bailor,

(2) great care when the bailment is for the sole benefit of the bailee, or

(3) ordinary care when the bailment is for the mutual benefit of the bailor and bailee.

See, Northern Indiana Slurry Seal, Inc. v. K & K Truck Sales, Inc. (1975), 167 Ind.App. 440, 338 N.E.2d 704, 706; Indiana Ins. Co. v. Ivetich (1983), Ind.App., 445 N.E.2d 110, 112; 4 I.L.E. Bailment § 7 (1958).

Second, is that IC referenced in Indiana's Law?

Third, there should be a requirement that the confiscation (which should not take place at all) must be witnessed by representatives of the accused and that all firearms must be placed in suitable cases such as pelican hard cases or comparable. = Great care.

 

[2A_Tom]

Fourth, There are multiple threads about red flag laws, this one was asking about a closely related subject.

Please look at H.R.838 - Threat Assessment, Prevention, and Safety Act of 2019

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...-bill/838/text

TAPS Act

After that please tell me what you think

 

[MarkC]

First, what is the IC that backs up this case?


Second, is that IC referenced in Indiana's Law?

Third, there should be a requirement that the confiscation (which should not take place at all) must be witnessed by representatives of the accused and that all firearms must be placed in suitable cases such as pelican hard cases or comparable. = Great care.

The Red Flag or Jake Laird law is here: Indiana Code 2019 - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session

The 2019 bill amending the Jake Laird law: House Bill 1651 - Judicial evaluation of dangerous individuals and firearms - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session

Unfortunately, the only reasonable way the government can compensate someone for a loss is by a money payment. The government cannot replace your maple stocked 1959 Swede Mauser or a lost wedding ring. Although something may be of great emotional value to an individual, it is difficult (or impossible) to put a reasonable dollar amount on the loss of that item.

And, I have to disagree that "confiscation" "should not take place at all." There are just some people who should not have dangerous instruments, and Indiana's law is an effort to balance the rights of the subject of the order with the need to protect the public.

It is impossible to predict with any certainty when someone will go off and commit an evil act. However, past behavior is often the only measure, and that is not always a good one.

 

[BugI02]

The Red Flag or Jake Laird law is here: Indiana Code 2019 - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session

The 2019 bill amending the Jake Laird law: House Bill 1651 - Judicial evaluation of dangerous individuals and firearms - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session

Unfortunately, the only reasonable way the government can compensate someone for a loss is by a money payment. The government cannot replace your maple stocked 1959 Swede Mauser or a lost wedding ring. Although something may be of great emotional value to an individual, it is difficult (or impossible) to put a reasonable dollar amount on the loss of that item.

[Why not box it and tag it and keep it in the evidence room/locker, and if they run out of space lease some secure containment. What would happen to a drug case if the heroin got lost or CoC was broken, would they offer the prosecutor a few bucks?]

And, I have to disagree that "confiscation" "should not take place at all." There are just some people who should not have dangerous instruments, and Indiana's law is an effort to balance the rights of the subject of the order with the need to protect the public.

It is impossible to predict with any certainty when someone will go off and commit an evil act. However, past behavior is often the only measure, and that is not always a good one.

Then somebody should take Chris Cuomo's guns

 

[JettaKnight]

This is kind of ridiculous. Not everything can be fixed with money. If the state confiscated your wedding ring and then lost it, would you feel made whole by the dollar value of the gold that was in it? If the state confiscated your perfect maple stocked 1915 Swede mauser (numbers matching) and then lost track of it, would you feel made whole by whatever the state decided it was worth? If the state confiscated a Garand carried by a family member in The Two and lost or damaged it, would you feel made whole by money or new parts?

I think not

It's almost as if storing up your treasure in things that rust on earth isn't a good idea.






Hi, Bug.

 

[MarkC]

Then somebody should take Chris Cuomo's guns

WORD. a) because he's demonstrably unstable; and b) those who want to disarm us should lead by example.

Indiana's definition of "proper person" for firearms laws:

IC 35-47-1-7 "Proper person"
Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
...
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
...

 

[Topshot]

Missed you at the NWI youth shoot TS. I realize you had other commitments. Hope to break bread with you some day.

Some day, but it won't be next June either as I'll be out of the country. It was nice you had enough volunteers this year so you didn't need riff raff from outside NWI.

 

[2A_Tom]

[video=youtube_share;1HXf4W43PLU]https://youtu.be/1HXf4W43PLU[/video]