Taxes, taxes, taxes and LESS TAXES... wait, what?!?!?

[churchmouse]

Fairtax sets a 23% sales tax and completely eliminates SS/Medicare/corporate/income and all other federal taxes. Maintains funding of these programs too

Thanks Doc

 

[ATM]

Realistically you know this will not ever happen yes.

Say it with me ...ZERO.

Sounds good, doesn't it? ZERO.

Imagine it. ZERO. None.

 

[Alpo]

1. How so?

2. You were wrong in that discussion, and soundly beaten. It doesn't have to be direct. Indirect is better than not at all, which is what happens as part of taxation.

3. Is this the ton of bricks vs. ton of feathers riddle? They're both $20 million. Well, sort of. The government taxes the first instance much higher, so less of it makes it into the economy. But it isn't for us to decide. The money belongs to the shareholders, so they can decide to give it to the CEO, employees, vendors, themselves or charity. Oh yeah, rich companies do that too.

1. As I said, superficially plausible, perhaps better phrased as a weakly articulated non-answer. A rich man who pays the full tax rate (most do not) on his income stream will not need to spend the same proportion of his income on goods and services. Yes, they will be luxury services to a large degree (unless you are a Warren Buffet type or a very high risk taker at the other extreme) but some sizable amount of that net income will be invested. To the extent not subscribed for initial or secondary offerings, money placed for market trades affects the GDP only through the salaries and bonuses paid to financial traders and their companies, plus interest.

2. You can read the GDP methodology yourself and then decide. "Soundly beaten"? An ATM-like response but with errors I'm afraid; however, it is a complex subject and what seems logical at first isn't the way it is calculated (for example, funds moved from a personal bank account to Wall Street do not affect GDP, except as noted above). You also might read about the financialization of our economy and what that has meant for this recovery and what it might portend for the future.

3. I'm not sure whether you are agreeing that $2,000 paid to 10,000 employees has a larger immediate effect on the economy than a bonus, even with a higher incremental tax rate, invested on Wall Street. As to the behavior of the boards that allowed CEO salaries to escalate to such a degree, we'll have to leave it to the historians to judge. Is a CEO now worth 10 times what he might have been compensated in 1990 vs mid-management increases over that same period? I strongly doubt it. Some large portion of that bonus is determined based on stock price growth which, in an era of low bond yields and Fed monetary policy over the last 10 years, is almost a given.

 

[bwframe]

Fairtax sets a 23% sales tax and completely eliminates SS/Medicare/corporate/income and all other federal taxes. Maintains funding of these programs too

This is the way to go.

 

[Ericpwp]

I thought a consumption tax was unconstitutional.

 

[seedubs1]

So they’re cutting taxes.....and what are they doing to curb out of control .gov spending to make up for this?

Seems they’re focusing on the wrong issue here.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Dow set to open +220 today on the tax cut news

 

[2A_Tom]

That would be where we as an electorate should stand united and keep these greedy perves at bay.

But that ain't gonna happen.

How? Their terms are 2 - 6 (many more for those whom their constituents see as bringing home the bacon) and the elections are a crap shoot. they always play nice before the election.

The dems offer gifts to the takers and all we have to offer is freedom which the takers do not want.

ETA And we havn't seen much freedom coming down the pike. It is fought by everyone. The progs say "IT"LL DESTROY AMERICA" and from near us "IT"S NOT ENOUGH!" So nothing moves toward freedom and the progs get elected to get free stuff and gubmint grows and grows. And folk close to us say there is no difference between them and us.

Truth is we all want free. Think about it.

 

[jamil]

Yep. America is divided on greedy pervs. Some are for. Some are against.

 

[churchmouse]

Yep. America is divided on greedy pervs. Some are for. Some are against.

As in the term limits thread we have this in hand right now but nobody or at least not enough of us use it.

 

[churchmouse]

So they’re cutting taxes.....and what are they doing to curb out of control .gov spending to make up for this?

Seems they’re focusing on the wrong issue here.

Bingo. Take away the open ended check book. Make them work with what they get....period. You know, the same way we have to do it.

 

[2A_Tom]

So they’re cutting taxes.....and what are they doing to curb out of control .gov spending to make up for this?

Seems they’re focusing on the wrong issue here.

The NYT did an article of how the T admin is dismanteling govern ment to the detriment of America. A lot of wasteful programs are being cut daily at this time. If the trend continues, expect to see more negative articles. That will be the only evidence that it is happening. Do not expect to see what you are wanting lauded in the media.

 

[churchmouse]

The NYT did an article of how the T admin is dismanteling govern ment to the detriment of America. A lot of wasteful programs are being cut daily at this time. If the trend continues, expect to see more negative articles. That will be the only evidence that it is happening. Do not expect to see what you are wanting lauded in the media.

Truth.

 

[hoosierdoc]

And stupid regulations are being wiped away. This is what happens when you get business people in charge instead of politicians

The NYT did an article of how the T admin is dismanteling govern ment to the detriment of America. A lot of wasteful programs are being cut daily at this time. If the trend continues, expect to see more negative articles. That will be the only evidence that it is happening. Do not expect to see what you are wanting lauded in the media.

 

[churchmouse]

And stupid regulations are being wiped away. This is what happens when you get business people in charge instead of politicians

And those who complain the most/loudest are standing to loose the most.

 

[Alpo]

Rubio says they are going to cut Social Security and Medicare....at least that is what is being reported by AARP. Does the tax bill touch this third rail?

 

[hoosierdoc]

Rubio says they are going to cut Social Security and Medicare....at least that is what is being reported by AARP. Does the tax bill touch this third rail?

Did he say cut? I think it was "address the structure". Since it's. About $150 trillion underfunded it seems like maybe something needs to be done. Privatize it. I suppose that could be a "cut"

 

[Alpo]

Yes, when a republican says "address" they mean "cut" or "eliminate" or "curtail". They don't mean "remedy long term issues for the benefit of our senior citizens".

 

[hoosierdoc]

So when they wanted to privatize it the libs and media said "republicans want to do away with your social security!"

and you blame the republicans for messaging? Haha

Yes, when a republican says "address" they mean "cut" or "eliminate" or "curtail". They don't mean "remedy long term issues for the benefit of our senior citizens".

 

[Alpo]

Privatization is a petard. The fund earns interest at an acceptable rate without the cycllcal issues of the market...or the associated fees.

However, if there were a plan to attach direct ownership of future plan assets to the payees, I'd support that. The problem with investment outside of US government securities is that plan failures would be paid for by you and me anyway. I don't want to take on the additional risk of millions of poor decisions by those who cannot forecast the market (most people).