Teacher Fires Gun in Georgia School

[IndyTom]

CNN:

The incident began about 11:30 a.m. when Randal Davidson, a 53-year-old social studies teacher, refused to let students into his classroom while he was in his planning period, Frazier said. When the principal put a key in the door in an attempt to enter, Davidson fired a shot from a handgun through an exterior window of the classroom, Frazier said.The school went into lockdown, and police quickly arrived and evacuated the immediate area around his classroom. After about 30 to 45 minutes, Davidson agreed to surrender and was taken into custody without further incident, Frazier said.

The school was not in lockdown until he shot.

From myajc.com (https://www.myajc.com/news/dalton-l...-safe-before-shooting/s2meH6LQCXTMjy1rmSd07M/)

In March 2016, a Dalton Police Department report says, he told police a bizarre story about tangential involvement in a murder. Police couldn’t confirm either the story or the existence of the alleged victim, and concluded that he may have been “delusional or have something else that had occurred that is causing him to have these thoughts.” They took him to the hospital because he was “thinking about harming himself.” Davidson told police he was on several medications for depression, the report said.
Then, in January 2017, he told a supervisor he felt ill and left the school. Police were called and a search ensued because he hadn’t driven to work that day and had called his son to pick him up, but he was gone when the son arrived, the police report said. He was found at a nearby intersection, in no obvious physical distress yet incommunicative: “No amount of stimulus would draw a response from him,” the officer wrote in the report. An ambulance took Davidson, a social studies teacher, to the hospital.

A bit of a nut case who didn't want students in his class. This wasn't an attempt to protect anyone.

 

[bwframe]

We are fighting for our 2A rights because the authorities won't do anything about loons like this.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, if anything, this sends a strong signal that we should have comprehensive background checks for gun purchases, and probably deeper ones for teachers.

 

[chipbennett]

Yeah, if anything, this sends a strong signal that we should have comprehensive background checks for gun purchases, and probably deeper ones for teachers.

Comprehensive background checks aren't really the issue (though I agree, if we must have BGCs, then the information in them warrants being complete and accurate). The issue is how properly to handle people like this guy (and the Parkland shooter) while respecting Due Process rights. (Yes, Ttrump: they matter. Due Process is not merely something the government "does", as a formality; it is a fundamental, natural right, as sacrosanct as the right to keep and bear arms.)

There are ways to get people like this guy into the system, and ways to deny his RKBA. The question is: are those ways adequate, and do they properly respect Due Process?

 

[T.Lex]

Comprehensive background checks aren't really the issue (though I agree, if we must have BGCs, then the information in them warrants being complete and accurate). The issue is how properly to handle people like this guy (and the Parkland shooter) while respecting Due Process rights. (Yes, Ttrump: they matter. Due Process is not merely something the government "does", as a formality; it is a fundamental, natural right, as sacrosanct as the right to keep and bear arms.)

There are ways to get people like this guy into the system, and ways to deny his RKBA. The question is: are those ways adequate, and do they properly respect Due Process?

Absolutely fair questions.

I think - as in many things - Indiana strikes a good balance.

1. There's no problem taking the guns first, then having due process. It really isn't any different than putting someone in jail THEN deciding if there's PC to keep them there. For that period of time, tag them in NICS to prevent further purchases.
2. There probably is room for some sort of tag such that for the duration of the immediate "red flag," even possession of a firearm is a crime. But, when there's a further determination that the immediacy is over, that tag should be cleared.
3. We absolutely need to make sure that if we have this kind of system in place, there should be a robust system of removing the tag.

I keep reminding myself that NICS is only part of the equation - it only comes into play for purchases. It seems like a great many tragedies include already-owned firearms. I think a focus on those issues would be more productive than focusing on NICS.

 

[chipbennett]

Absolutely fair questions.

I think - as in many things - Indiana strikes a good balance.

1. There's no problem taking the guns first, then having due process. It really isn't any different than putting someone in jail THEN deciding if there's PC to keep them there. For that period of time, tag them in NICS to prevent further purchases.
2. There probably is room for some sort of tag such that for the duration of the immediate "red flag," even possession of a firearm is a crime. But, when there's a further determination that the immediacy is over, that tag should be cleared.
3. We absolutely need to make sure that if we have this kind of system in place, there should be a robust system of removing the tag.

I keep reminding myself that NICS is only part of the equation - it only comes into play for purchases. It seems like a great many tragedies include already-owned firearms. I think a focus on those issues would be more productive than focusing on NICS.

There are two, separate-but-related, issues:

1. BGCs that apply at time of firearm purchase
2. Confiscation of already possessed firearms

BGCs only address one of the two, and there is no real evidence that, even with a perfect BGC system in place, they would be effective in preventing prohibited persons from obtaining firearms.

The more important issue - as it has cropped up in several, recent incidents - is what to do about people who already possess firearms, and who evince indicators of being unhinged. That is the, "take the guns, do Due Process later" - and that is what I have a problem with. There is way too much opportunity for abuse.

The GVRO is one idea. And while it has its own problems/shortcomings, at least it attempts to respect Due Process. We need to explore similar ideas, and ensure that they are both effective at removing firearms from unhinged people before they are able to act using them, AND that they FULLY respect Due Process rights. That is a tall order, but I refuse to believe that SOMETHING along those lines couldn't have been done with respect to the Parkland shooter, given the months of lead time, and dozens of warnings.

 

[T.Lex]

Well, like so many of our conversations, I don't really disagree, except on a narrow point.

I think the BGC system still needs to be updated to allow for time-delimited binariness. That is, right now it seems set up so that it is a pass/fail check. The system needs a couple feedback loops to allow for immediate update for people who are going through a temporary issue. That gets triggered (pardon the pun) and they not only fail BGCs, but it is perhaps even a crime to possess.

BUT, once they clear that temporary issue, they go back to green-light status.

I don't think those feedback loops are part of the current system.

That could have caught the Parkland guy, I think. Perhaps also - and this is kinda where my personal sympathy lies - suicidal vets who just need some time between the situation they're in and a more positive outlook.

 

[chipbennett]

Well, like so many of our conversations, I don't really disagree, except on a narrow point.

I think the BGC system still needs to be updated to allow for time-delimited binariness. That is, right now it seems set up so that it is a pass/fail check. The system needs a couple feedback loops to allow for immediate update for people who are going through a temporary issue. That gets triggered (pardon the pun) and they not only fail BGCs, but it is perhaps even a crime to possess.

BUT, once they clear that temporary issue, they go back to green-light status.

I don't think those feedback loops are part of the current system.

That could have caught the Parkland guy, I think. Perhaps also - and this is kinda where my personal sympathy lies - suicidal vets who just need some time between the situation they're in and a more positive outlook.

I'm not much inclined to argue one way or the other on BGCs - primarily because I believe the decades of empirical data prove that they are utterly worthless at accomplishing their stated objective. Even with perfect BGCs, someone who wants to obtain a firearm will still be able to do so. "Fixing" BGCs will, at most, present a minor inconvenience to a determined person. So, IMHO, doing anything to "fix" BGCs is merely rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Ultimately, the issue isn't firearms; it is people. To address the problem, then, we must address how we deal with people.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

He also had at least two previous mental health breakdowns and an encounter with police. But he was still teaching?

Bizarre behavior by Georgia teacher preceded gun scare - Chicago Tribune

 

[chipbennett]

He also had at least two previous mental health breakdowns and an encounter with police. But he was still teaching?

Bizarre behavior by Georgia teacher preceded gun scare - Chicago Tribune

Incidents that happened over a period of almost two years before this one.

 

[actaeon277]

I guess next time a teacher talks her anti-gun crap, I should mention that teachers should require regular mental health and background checks.
After all, if they go bonkers, I'm sure not having a gun will not stop them.