The 2nd Amendment doesn't grant me rights

[popsmoke]

The 2nd amendment grants me the right to own guns - by Anonymous

"No, it really doesn't. 'A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

The comma after Militia makes it the focus of the sentence, Which means that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" is directly related to
the Militia and not individual citizens acting on their own. Today the Militia has been replaced by the National Guard. We do not need Militias anymore. With that said, the Constitution does not grant U.S. citizens the right to weapons. Not only that, but it stresses the importance of regulating them even within our own military"

Stumbled across this infuriating post this morning. I'm still kind of in disbelief that someone could so incorrectly interpret the Constitution. What the f***?!

Even if this pathetic attempt at devaluing the 2nd Amendment was legit, and they WERE talking about a militia instead of every US citizen, then it still holds true that the National Guard is NOT a f***ing militia. It's a federally and state commanded armed forces branch. That's why the Commander in Chief of the National Guard is the President.


A militia is, by definition, ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers, with no formal military training. I'm still formulating my response. I was interested in some of your opinions on this crock of s***.

Here's the link.

 

[miguel]

BS on the National Guard replacing the militia.

Shove this link up their heiner: http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C13.txt

 

[Rookie]

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=/

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

Obviously the 2nd Amendment doesn't grant any rights. For that matter the Constitution doesn't grant any rights, none whatsoever.

Rather, the Constitution with the Bill of Rights acknowledges the rights given to all Mankind from God and/or nature and promises to protect them.

For IF the Constitution gave us rights, then the Constitution could simply be changed to take away rights and that just isn't so.

But, as it is from the nature of our creation only that which gave us our rights (God and/or nature) can take them away. This means we loose our rights upon our death and NOT on any words written on any piece of paper.

Regards,

Doug

 

[thebishopp]

Stumbled across this infuriating post this morning. I'm still kind of in disbelief that someone could so incorrectly interpret the Constitution. What the f***?!

Even if this pathetic attempt at devaluing the 2nd Amendment was legit, and they WERE talking about a militia instead of every US citizen, then it still holds true that the National Guard is NOT a f***ing militia. It's a federally and state commanded armed forces branch. That's why the Commander in Chief of the National Guard is the President.


A militia is, by definition, ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers, with no formal military training. I'm still formulating my response. I was interested in some of your opinions on this crock of s***.

Here's the link.

The problem is they are conveniently ignoring what more than just a few of the founders openly stated regarding the "militia" as well as what they stated about their thought on people being armed.

It was the commonly held belief that the "militia" consisted of every able bodied citizen and if you read what many of that time period said then it would be clear that the 2nd Amendment is speaking about both the militia consisting of "every able bodied" citizen (or even those who have declared intent to be citizens - I believe an old us code states this) between certain ages, as well as the people themselves (those outside the age bracket for who they considered "militia").

Here are some comments from that time about that:

GEORGE MASON

"When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor..."

George Mason, Virginia Constitution Convention

(bold and italics added by me... just thought it was an interesting pertinent statement to what has been going on for a long time now).
---------------

TENCHE COXE

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

------------

PATRICK HENRY

"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"

-------

THOMAS JEFFERSON

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press."

Quoting Cesare Beccaria: “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

-----

GEORGE WASHINGTON

“A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”

---------

 

[Reuben Cogburn]

To All,

Obviously the 2nd Amendment doesn't grant any rights. For that matter the Constitution doesn't grant any rights, none whatsoever.

Rather, the Constitution with the Bill of Rights acknowledges the rights given to all Mankind from God and/or nature and promises to protect them.

For IF the Constitution gave us rights, then the Constitution could simply be changed to take away rights and that just isn't so.

But, as it is from the nature of our creation only that which gave us our rights (God and/or nature) can take them away. This means we loose our rights upon our death and NOT on any words written on any piece of paper.

Regards,

Doug

Exactly correct.

It is sad many folks have forgotten this. Worse yet that many have never learned it to begin with.

 

[avboiler11]

You'll save yourself a LOT of raised blood pressure by not getting aggravated at those liberal arts majors who think their interpretation of something based on punctuation placement is more pertinent than historical context, associated writings of those who helped craft the Bill of Rights, and over two centuries of court rulings.

 

[Indy Str8-Shot]

I agree with Libertarian01 100%,

Anyone who wants to better understand our Constitution, Hillsdale College offers 100% free online courses that you can take at your convenience and pace. You can hear the lectures, read and/or print the reading materials, and take the tests if you want. There are three courses available; Intro to the Constitution, Constitution 101, and Constitution 201. Just go to rushforhillsdale.com if interested.

 

[Reuben Cogburn]

I agree with Libertarian01 100%,

Anyone who wants to better understand our Constitution, Hillsdale College offers 100% free online courses that you can take at your convenience and pace. You can hear the lectures, read and/or print the reading materials, and take the tests if you want. There are three courses available; Intro to the Constitution, Constitution 101, and Constitution 201. Just go to rushforhillsdale.com if interested.

These are outstanding courses and well worth the time to go through.

 

[Kutnupe14]

...Every able bodied "citizen." Interesting. That implies something. I hadn't thought of it 'til now, but it certainly weakens the "everybody" has the right to bear arms idea.

 

[netsecurity]

To liberals this is the correct interpretation. All of them believe the second amendment is related to the military only, which allows them to restrict guns in any way they want.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

First off the punctuation differs depending upon which copy you look at. Secondly, people conveniently forget all about 10 USC chapter 13. http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C13.txt This is my favorite argument when someone tries to tell me all about the 2nd being only for the military. They've never heard of it.

-STATUTE- (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are - (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

 

[SmileDocHill]

The word "regulated" meant something entirely different back then also. It was used to mean practiced, well oiled, or kept running. It was used similarly when speaking of mechanical clocks. They needed regulated to keep good time. Checked and worked on to keep them running smoothly.

Point being, it was not meant to mean some higher power (Gov.) regulates it by todays definition which has more of a controlling meaning.

 

[beararms1776]

You'll save yourself a LOT of raised blood pressure by not getting aggravated at those liberal arts majors who think their interpretation of something based on punctuation placement is more pertinent than historical context, associated writings of those who helped craft the Bill of Rights, and over two centuries of court rulings.

Don't forget about the State Constitution. Article 1 section 32.
I'm sure there are a few other sections that mean something different to them other than what they state.
I do like the way G. Washington states it to include not only government, but the tyrants in citizenry itself.

 

[ATM]

Here's a link to the best written interpretation of the 2A and historical context and significance of the militia that I've read in a long time here:

Edwin Vieira, Jr. -- "The Militia of The Several States" Guarantee the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Part 1

Though quite long in all its parts, the thoroughness and detailed supporting references for his arguments are impressive.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

TENCHE COXE

"...Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...

Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette

Ahh, if only it were so...

 

[Reuben Cogburn]

Oh, it is the birthright of an American.

Yet, birthrights will be suppressed if not defended.

 

[rugertoter]

Where the hell did that original statement come from?

 

[Mr.JAG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YY5Rj4cQ50

 

[beararms1776]

Here's a link to the best written interpretation of the 2A and historical context and significance of the militia that I've read in a long time here:

Edwin Vieira, Jr. -- "The Militia of The Several States" Guarantee the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Part 1

Though quite long in all its parts, the thoroughness and detailed supporting references for his arguments are impressive.

Your absolutely right!!! Some great reading here. Thanks for the link grasshopper!