The best AK47

[Alexp120]

then you basically can't call anything an AK-47/AKM because the only true AK-47/AKM are the original russian machine guns.

Everything else is just, literally, a copy or a variant.

If your just talking Russian variants, there are hundreds of thousands of Saigas and SGLs in country today, made on the same assembly line as the current AK100 series rifles.

Not really. Russians sanctioned/approved production in most of the Warsaw Pact countries. Those countries created their own parts supply, and own modification (e.g. Czech VZ58, forearm on yugo, etc). Poland preferred machinning vs stamping. I am talking about true "soviet" AKM that was made in Izhevsk, with soviet serial numbers, quality control and such. "Copeis" (yugo, romanian, polish, etc) can be compared because they are available here. There is no comparison to original one, that is available for most, with the exception of people that have "bring backs" or collectibles.
Saiga is made at the same factory, but not same line, different quality control. Warsaw block had "dual" quality control - civilian and military (for all military products). Russians still have that. Saiga is considered "civilian" product, and is inspected to different standards.

 

[Clay]

Not really. Russians sanctioned/approved production in most of the Warsaw Pact countries. Those countries created their own parts supply, and own modification (e.g. Czech VZ58, forearm on yugo, etc). Poland preferred machinning vs stamping. I am talking about true "soviet" AKM that was made in Izhevsk, with soviet serial numbers, quality control and such. "Copeis" (yugo, romanian, polish, etc) can be compared because they are available here.

I think if you did you will find there are a lot more russian AKM rifles here than you think. From actual russian built rifles, to kit built rifles, to russian post deal samples.

There is no comparison to original one, that is available for most, with the exception of people that have "bring backs" or collectibles.
Saiga is made at the same factory, but not same line, different quality control. Warsaw block had "dual" quality control - civilian and military (for all military products). Russians still have that. Saiga is considered "civilian" product, and is inspected to different standards.

I agree with you they probably aren't built on the exact same line, but the built from the exact same parts. You can even stumble across saiga rifles with X and Y stamped trunnions, and military marked receivers if you look. The barrels are the same, with few exceptions. I have a hard time believing, as cash strapped as Izhvesk has been for the last few years, that they would invest in completely different lines and QC for two essentially identical rifles save for some lugs, an extra hole, and a funky stock and trigger setup.

 

[Alexp120]

Not really. Russians sanctioned/approved production in most of the Warsaw Pact countries. Those countries created their own parts supply, and own modification (e.g. Czech VZ58, forearm on yugo, etc). Poland preferred machinning vs stamping. I am talking about true "soviet" AKM that was made in Izhevsk, with soviet serial numbers, quality control and such. "Copeis" (yugo, romanian, polish, etc) can be compared because they are available here.

I think if you did you will find there are a lot more russian AKM rifles here than you think. From actual russian built rifles, to kit built rifles, to russian post deal samples.



I agree with you they probably aren't built on the exact same line, but the built from the exact same parts. You can even stumble across saiga rifles with X and Y stamped trunnions, and military marked receivers if you look. The barrels are the same, with few exceptions. I have a hard time believing, as cash strapped as Izhvesk has been for the last few years, that they would invest in completely different lines and QC for two essentially identical rifles save for some lugs, an extra hole, and a funky stock and trigger setup.

I am not arguing. It does make sense to run similar rifles on the same line, but russians are different. AK are funded/purchased by military, Saiga is a civilian weapon sold on the open market. Most likely they have separate areas for these assemblies. They also have different accounting, because military portion is being paid by the ministry of. They have lines ""
Under differnt names Ïðîäóêöèÿ
Their production equipment is not as good as US (more parts need to be produced in order to build certain number of rifles), for this reason many parts rejected for the military weapons are being used in civilian, so nothing goes to waste.
As far as finding "soviet" AK (made from 1948 until 1985), there were some in the past. Most that I saw were bring backs. Some came with chinese AK. There are some that were made using home made receivers, some are registered as FA.

 

[Alexp120]

Russian IzhMash (manufacturer of AK and Saiga) filed for bancruptcy. They are producing about 70 different tipes of weapons, including hunting and military (including aircraft cannons). It is not clear what will happen, however, it is known that some buyers for russian special forces went to Israel to purchase certain types of weapons - including machine guns.