The Box O' Truth - Fighting With a Shotgun

[bluewraith]

Some people have heard of the BOT, and maybe read some articles on it.. but have you read the one about fighting with a shotgun?
It's a good read. It seems like every time I find my way to BOT, I get stuck there for a couple hours.

Educational Zone #83 - Fighting With a Shotgun - Page 1

 

[paperboy]

Pretty good read

 

[MikeDVB]

Interesting read indeed, I'm saving up for an AR15 for the official home-defense weapon methinks.

 

[snowman]

Not sure I agree with his scanning info. I have always been taught to keep the muzzle pointed where you look. This applies even more when a flashlight is attached to the barrel.

 

[figley]

Not sure I agree with his scanning info. I have always been taught to keep the muzzle pointed where you look. This applies even more when a flashlight is attached to the barrel.

Taught by whom? I believe O_P did this BoT shortly after a class with Clint Smith, or someone of equal esteem.

 

[gunman41mag]

Lately I've been hearing a lot of people saying the shotgun isn't a good weapon, guess I wasted my money on two BENELLI M1 SUPER 90 & a BERETTA 1201 FP

 

[figley]

Lately I've been hearing a lot of people saying the shotgun isn't a good weapon, guess I wasted my money on two BENELLI M1 SUPER 90 & a BERETTA 1201 FP

You'll be fine, if you're ever attacked by a bunch of geese!


There is a school of thought, that subscribes to the idea that, outside of hunting applications, there is nothing a shotgun can do, that an AR-15 can't do as well, or better. Considering the wide variety of 5.56/.223 loads made publicly available in the past couple of years, that belief is, in large part, valid. Use of a shotgun for defensive purposes is, to some, outdated.

As O_P, and many respected instructors and combat vets can attest, the shotgun can still be an effective fighting tool. There are a variety of loads available for the shotgun, also, which can be tailored to a variety of situations.

For someone who can't, or doesn't want to, pay for an AR, a shotgun is a viable alternative. There are also those who believe a shotgun is just downright better.

Do your research, make your own decision.

 

[gunman41mag]

You'll be fine, if you're ever attacked by a bunch of geese!


There is a school of thought, that subscribes to the idea that, outside of hunting applications, there is nothing a shotgun can do, that an AR-15 can't do as well, or better. Considering the wide variety of 5.56/.223 loads made publicly available in the past couple of years, that belief is, in large part, valid. Use of a shotgun for defensive purposes is, to some, outdated.

As O_P, and many respected instructors and combat vets can attest, the shotgun can still be an effective fighting tool. There are a variety of loads available for the shotgun, also, which can be tailored to a variety of situations.

For someone who can't, or doesn't want to, pay for an AR, a shotgun is a viable alternative. There are also those who believe a shotgun is just downright better.

Do your research, make your own decision.

My BENELLI M1 SUPER 90 & BERETTA 1201 FP weren't cheap, I'm sure thur-out history, shotgun have killed bad people maybe those were lucky shots Maybe if a GRIZZLY bear is coming at you, you'll drop the BENELLI M1 with 8 rounds of slugs & use your ar-15 with the 55 gr. ammo

 

[pokersamurai]

There is a school of thought, that subscribes to the idea that, outside of hunting applications, there is nothing a shotgun can do, that an AR-15 can't do as well, or better. Considering the wide variety of 5.56/.223 loads made publicly available in the past couple of years, that belief is, in large part, valid. Use of a shotgun for defensive purposes is, to some, outdated.

I've had several friends tell me the same thing when I told them I use a shotgun for home defense. I do think ARs are great weapons, however, if I only had one shot to stop a 6'2" 250lb bad guy nothing beats 9 pellets of 00 buck.

 

[TopDog]

Live and learn.

Everything changes. At one time a shotgun was considered an ideal self defense weapon. I always had a very low opinion of the M16 platform. But now that light has shown on the gas system and more and more people are going to a piston gas system similar to the ever reliable AK the M16 / AR15 platform is more appealing, for it has become far more reliable.

I'm not plunking down AR money when I'm very confident in my shotguns. The AR has its place certainly but not going to convert me just yet. God forbid I have to engage in a full out fire fight with a fire team or larger force, then I would be begging for a AR.

 

[figley]

My BENELLI M1 SUPER 90 & BERETTA 1201 FP weren't cheap, I'm sure thur-out history, shotgun have killed bad people maybe those were lucky shots Maybe if a GRIZZLY bear is coming at you, you'll drop the BENELLI M1 with 8 rounds of slugs & use your ar-15 with the 55 gr. ammo

This saves me the trouble of explaining why I feel a rifle is better

 

[figley]

I've had several friends tell me the same thing when I told them I use a shotgun for home defense. I do think ARs are great weapons, however, if I only had one shot to stop a 6'2" 250lb bad guy nothing beats 9 pellets of 00 buck.

If your mind is open to accepting new information, that may contradict what you always believed to be true, do some research on the effects of bullet fragmentation.

Here's a good place to start: :: Ammo Oracle

 

[gunman41mag]

Guess I'll just throw away my shotguns

 

[pokersamurai]

If your mind is open to accepting new information, that may contradict what you always believed to be true, do some research on the effects of bullet fragmentation.

Here's a good place to start: :: Ammo Oracle

Believe it or not, I do have an AR, and I have researched the effects of fragmenting ammo. I know the .223/5.56 is very deadly especially in its fragmenting variations, and if I were in a SHTF situation where I might need to engage multiple threats at longer range there is no doubt that a rifle is the better weapon. However, from a home defense view point where you might be engaging one, maybe two, bad guys; a shotgun loaded with 00 buck fires 9 .33 caliber, 53.8gr projectiles at once, compared to an AR that fires one .223 caliber, 55gr projectile at a time. Even if the .223 round fragments I would take 9 projectiles at once vs 1 at a time any day of the week.

 

[pokersamurai]

Although, if I were a bad guy I wouldn't want to get hit with either of these.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m2vaJCBQTs&feature=plcp&context=C4714b83VDvjVQa1PpcFOG_AU40wZt1wQ3WhrNZMibPY-evfAWGTI=[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBFS3HWoIU&feature=plcp&context=C4d59e75VDvjVQa1PpcFOG_AU40wZt1xrnqEWhnF_GtfQeMIr7RzI=[/ame]

 

[figley]

Do your research, make your own decision.

I'm just sayin'

 

[bingley]

Should the weapon choice depend on the competence of the user? I think we're arguing in the abstract, assuming that the user is an expert with all types of firearms. How often do we get to train with our firearms? Which variety do you spend the most time with? I'd just go with the one I'm most comfortable with that is sufficient for home defense (i.e., no 22LR). I'd even forego a more powerful weapon that I'm not as good at using.

 

[figley]

Should the weapon choice depend on the competence of the user? I think we're arguing in the abstract, assuming that the user is an expert with all types of firearms. How often do we get to train with our firearms? Which variety do you spend the most time with? I'd just go with the one I'm most comfortable with that is sufficient for home defense (i.e., no 22LR). I'd even forego a more powerful weapon that I'm not as good at using.

You are correct. Simplicity in manipulation is a concern for a shooter who is unfamiliar. Some shooters may be more familiar with one type of gun over another.

Effectiveness of ammo may be objective, but that doesn't override the very subjective factor that is the person behind the gun. The latter is most influential in determining the effectiveness of the whole combination.

This conversation is similar to the one in which we argue that any gun that you'll carry, beats the ideal gun you leave at home.

 

[Slawburger]

Shotguns are fairly simple and might be less likely to confuse or intimidate a user with limited experience. They don't require much accuracy in a hallway. The sound of a shotgun going off is a strong incentive for people to leave the area (if the sound of a pump action being cycled wasn't enough).

 

[1988-4551]

Over penetration make me worry