The government taking over your life

[DoggyDaddy]

Google isn't a search engine anymore. I wouldn't use them to prove a point, as they're another incredibly powerful system that needs to be thrown into the proverbial volcano alongside credit reporting.

Individualism and individual liberties are at their maximum when power is at its minimum. An enormously powerful private sector tool is only one appropriation away from becoming an enormously powerful government tool. The only way to stop that from happening is to prevent those tools from existing in the first place, or to give individuals a way to neutralize them.

It should be obvious by now that the government is aggressively utilizing private industry as an end run around the constitution. It's like information security, the only true way to keep information secret is to not collect and store it all in the first place.

That's why I listed other possibilities besides Google. So I take it you really do go to the library, search for books on what you're wanting information on, and don't go online at all for this information?

I'm into all manner of old firearms. If I had to research how to disassemble and/or fix some of them, I'd be spending all of my time in a library instead of clicking on Youtube, finding the video that has the info I need, and be working on my gun in seconds, rather than days, weeks, or years.

 

[Route 45]

So if a private company produced and published a firearm registry for the government to use, that would be fine with you?

Let me help you...

I never said that I was for government control of this sector, of course any reasonble person would be against that.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Do businesses have credit scores when they get a loan?

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: Yes, but it's a little different. Businesses that are their own legal entity (corporations, LLCs, etc.) will have a score. Sole proprietorships probably won't, it'll be the owner's. Small businesses will have the owner's personal credit score as a factor. The scales are different (businesses are usually two digit scores, personal scores are three digits)

If your business has zero credit score, you'll probably have to take a personal loan until you establish a business credit score.

Businesses can issue bonds vs getting loans (or both), and there are also ratings for bonds.

 

[NKBJ]

I'm concerned about what they'll morph it into. I already know the intent. Just don't know how long it'll be before they pull it off.

 

[kBk wz. 1970]

I think this government contrarian outlook may well be the future. I would like to know history like many on this board, so I'm trying to learn and think about what will happen.

It seems there's a lot of misdirection topics created by government to distract from a bigger agenda of what is called the Great Reset. You've seen the topics and threads, credit this, kneeling that, Olympic this, gender that. What will it take to give freedoms back to the citizens? It just seems like with the overall direction of the Country, it might be too late to turn it around. I hope not, but I've not seen anything like it. The last years agenda was implemented to create massive divisions for more control. Then everyone debates and argues, and has anything changed? The original blueprints are definitely not being followed.

Will there be a decentralization movement? There's already been nullification laws with State against Federal. Other Countries have their own independent states, provinces, and I suppose governments. Basically if you're traveling in the US, you will see this to a large degree already, excluding the fact even the smaller red areas are monetarily tied into the Federal system. I did see a table of States ranked in order of dependancy on the the Fed. Those least dependant could be the first one on secession. It's been talked about on both sides of the corrupt parties before.

“In other news, water is wet.”

 

[AtTheMurph]

I think this government contrarian outlook may well be the future. I would like to know history like many on this board, so I'm trying to learn and think about what will happen.

It seems there's a lot of misdirection topics created by government to distract from a bigger agenda of what is called the Great Reset. You've seen the topics and threads, credit this, kneeling that, Olympic this, gender that. What will it take to give freedoms back to the citizens? It just seems like with the overall direction of the Country, it might be too late to turn it around. I hope not, but I've not seen anything like it. The last years agenda was implemented to create massive divisions for more control. Then everyone debates and argues, and has anything changed? The original blueprints are definitely not being followed.

Will there be a decentralization movement? There's already been nullification laws with State against Federal. Other Countries have their own independent states, provinces, and I suppose governments. Basically if you're traveling in the US, you will see this to a large degree already, excluding the fact even the smaller red areas are monetarily tied into the Federal system. I did see a table of States ranked in order of dependancy on the the Fed. Those least dependant could be the first one on secession. It's been talked about on both sides of the corrupt parties before.

You can vote yourself into Socialism but you always have to shoot your way out.

 

[tagoofy]

Just seeing this topic, so I apologize for posting back on topic. ;-)

Hard to imagine a more color blind system than your credit score. It literally does not know what color your skin is (at least I hope not). This one more of the insane ideas to try to engineer equality of outcome instead of what the government should be doing which is allowing freedom so we have equal opportunity.

 

[Ingomike]

I don't believe credit agencies have been around that long. Think it's referred to now as a traditional method/loan, meaning before the credit scores. Basically debt to income ratio allows the lender to finance the borrower. Lenders already have the titles to your stuff, I personally don't think this system is good for the consumer. Better off owning it if possible. More or less what Ark said so poetically

I believe credit reporting came about because TPTB did not like the old way, which was the bankers personally knew everyone in town, knew who worked and didn't, who drank too much and who didn't, who could be trusted and who couldn't, and so on.

They were looking for an objective system that could be applied accross larger geographical areas to grow companies.

 

[Ingomike]

So if a private company produced and published a firearm registry for the government to use, that would be fine with you?

I can hedge risk by checking references, requiring higher income or down payment, increasing rates, restricting loan amount, and numerous other methods. The practice of lending was not invented the year electronic credit scores became a thing.

I have always been against the government getting information, that if they gathered it themselves would be believed unconstitutional by the majority, from private sources. (Since I learned they were buying credit data in the 90's.) I would be shocked if government was not buying data on gun purchases from credit card companies.

The practice of travel was not invented the year the automobile became a thing...

 

[Ingomike]

It should be obvious by now that the government is aggressively utilizing private industry as an end run around the constitution.

Been trying to get folks to see this for years...

 

[AtTheMurph]

How did they evaluate creditworthiness before Experian and Equifax existed?

Besides, the loan is secured because the lender holds the deed or the repossession rights on whatever you bought. Debt to income ratio, interest, and threat of repossession are sufficient, we don't need credit scores and we certainly don't need government-controlled social credit scores. If the consequence of that is some irresponsible people have to go without home ownership or access to a fire hose of Visa Platinum credit, so be it. They should earn more, borrow less, and spend less. Credit is not a human right.

When govt got involved in lending, banking and money creation is when the system was guaranteed to fail.

FDIC creates a moral hazard. Banks know they will be bailed out if they screw up so it incentivizes them to take greater risks.

FNMA/Freddiemac created moral hazard in lending. They set up lending rules to incentivize more home ownership, as if that is a good goal. The lenders issued the loans, packaged them up, handed them to Fannie and Freddie who sold them off to your insurance company, pension fund or 401k mutual fund as AAA rated credit, even though the actual borrowers had little skin in the game, little or no income, and were in no way qualified borrowers. Nobody cared because people could buy a home they couldn't afford, the banks made money, the bureaucrats made money and the investors got AAA rated , government insured credit! How wonderful!!

If the banks had actual skin in the game, they would not have made the loans. If the borrowers had actual skin in the game, i.e., 20%+ in equity, they would not have borrowed and without the government de facto AAA rating guarantee the investors would have seen these packaged CDOs as the junk they were. The interest rates these borrowers would have had to pay would have been the cap on the system. but they got AAA rated credit rates, because charging bad risks for loans is racist or something.

And guess what, they all got bailed out on the backs of people who did the right things. And what is worse is that the government continues to create these sorts of mal-investments all across the economy.

The Federal Reserve centrally plans the cost of capital. There is no greater central planning power than that. We have our own Politburo!! we are forcing people to take risks they otherwise would not. Savers are forced to seek returns in risky assets that never seem to go down because he Fed has a Plunge Protection team ready and willing to interfere in the equity and debt markets. They can do so until one of three eventualities occurs:

1) Their interventions no longer work and they lose control of everything.
2) They decide to allow the system to reset and wipe out those poor muppets who took the risk and lost, wiping them out.
3) They destroy the dollar in the process of trying to backstop everything thereby destroying the American way of life and our country and society.

It may well be a combination of all the above with the 3rd being the final end game.

 

[JAL]

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: Yes, but it's a little different. Businesses that are their own legal entity (corporations, LLCs, etc.) will have a score. Sole proprietorships probably won't, it'll be the owner's. Small businesses will have the owner's personal credit score as a factor. The scales are different (businesses are usually two digit scores, personal scores are three digits)

If your business has zero credit score, you'll probably have to take a personal loan until you establish a business credit score.

Businesses can issue bonds vs getting loans (or both), and there are also ratings for bonds.

Indeed, even large corporations have "credit" ratings. It determines the interest rates they must pay when they borrow. Nearly all corporations have borrowed money, often huge sums, as it leverages using someone else's money to make money. The trick is making more than the loan interest. If a corporation's credit rating tanks because it's in financial trouble, it can become a downward spiral with negative feedback (i.e. it makes the financial trouble worse which further degrades the credit rating . . .). Standard and Poor's is probably the best known corporate credit rating firm. Moody is another.

 

[JAL]

How soon we forget what occurred with the 2008 financial implosion that very nearly created another Great Depression . . . created by mortgages that should never have been written under FHA, Fanny Mae, and Freddie Mac because the mortgagees were too high a default risk and worse yet, they were upside down in the mortgages (i.e. owed more than a foreclosure could sell the house for). There were a host of other activities bundling these mortgages up and reselling them in a "hot potato" activity, passing them from one financial firm to another, but the bottom line is many of them should never have been written to begin with as the borrowers were much too high a risk for the size of their income, the size of the mortgage and their past credit history.

So lets go back to the social engineering fiscal policies that generated all that by taking control of consumer credit scores and then forcing lenders to hand out high risk loans with low interest rates. Maybe we can generate another Great Depression given the opportunity to do it again. Guess who pays for all the defaults? We all do. Some of us are still paying for them from all the collateral damage that occurred with the economy tanked in 2008-2009.

 

[JAL]

I've not read through this entire thread . . .
Another aspect of the planned takeover of credit reporting agencies that troubles me immensely is the trove of financial data about each person that is now in government hands . . . and they will not be able to resist scouring through it for political gain and launching witch hunts. If it can be misused and abused, it will be misused and abused. To wit, the recent IRS scandal with leaked income tax returns. Furthermore, I do not trust US Gov't cybersecurity means and methods to protect the information from outsiders.

One of the things I learned in Espionage 101 courtesy of Uncle Sam was spying isn't a James Bond novel. You turn a low level clerk who has access to a piece of what you want, an anonymous face in the sea of low level clerks that has something you can leverage on, whether it's gambling addiction, cheating on their spouse, or something similar. The other ones that can be turned are those with an axe to grind. If the IRS leak is unraveled, it will be some low level nobody who could pull up the return information and did it for (a) the money offered to leak the information, or (b) out of economic/political spite, or (c) both of the above.

 

[BugI02]

I've not read through this entire thread . . .
Another aspect of the planned takeover of credit reporting agencies that troubles me immensely is the trove of financial data about each person that is now in government hands . . . and they will not be able to resist scouring through it for political gain and launching witch hunts. If it can be misused and abused, it will be misused and abused. To wit, the recent IRS scandal with leaked income tax returns. Furthermore, I do not trust US Gov't cybersecurity means and methods to protect the information from outsiders.

One of the things I learned in Espionage 101 courtesy of Uncle Sam was spying isn't a James Bond novel. You turn a low level clerk who has access to a piece of what you want, an anonymous face in the sea of low level clerks that has something you can leverage on, whether it's gambling addiction, cheating on their spouse, or something similar. The other ones that can be turned are those with an axe to grind. If the IRS leak is unraveled, it will be some low level nobody who could pull up the return information and did it for (a) the money offered to leak the information, or (b) out of economic/political spite, or (c) both of the above.

Only one small quibble. Not sure .gov's version of information security could be much lamer than what the big three were already using

The Equifax breach would not have happened if they had any security worthy of the term

 

[JAL]

Only one small quibble. Not sure .gov's version of information security could be much lamer than what the big three were already using

The Equifax breach would not have happened if they had any security worthy of the term

That may be a decent point. However, with Equifax, ultimately there is a tort liability for negligence, not just for the company as an entity, but with the employees in the company that were involved. Equifax was sweating bullets for a while regarding liability. With Uncle Sam, even though there's a tort claim procedure, it's very difficult to pursue, and there's "qualified immunity" for all the gov't minions - who know they have "qualified immunity".

 

[Ziggidy]

They can only do what we let them. I could care less about my credit score.

Can only do what "we" let them? I have heard that line for decades. When will "we" stop them?

Don't care about your score? You will.....

 

[Ziggidy]

Bingo. If we eliminated 75% of those douche water drinkers we could still run this country just fine if we followed the original blueprints.

Many of the lovers of douche water are pretty obvious, they stand out. It's the secret douche water drinkers or occasional douche water drinker that I am concerned with.

I wonder how many members we'd lose if we eliminated 75%????

The original blueprints are stained with douche water.

 

[therewolf]

And oooh! Let me guess, if you don't get vaccinated, it'll affect your credit report ?

Didn't see that one coming, all the way back in Sausalito . . .