The Great NRA 3 Rules vs. Cooper's 4 Rules Debate

[cbhausen]

Do you think maybe being taught any firearm you haven't personally cleared is always loaded might have helped with that incorrect perception

Cooper's #1 applies even before you touch the gun, consider it loaded

#2 applies when you interact in any way with the firearm, never allow the muzzle to point at anything you don't want to shoot

#3 drills deeper into that interaction, even with the muzzle pointing in a desired direction, finger off the trigger until you decide to shoot

#4 Before you should be willing to fire, you should positively identify your target as the target and consider what or who will be impacted by a miss

Maybe… but muzzle and finger would have prevented anyone getting shot, which is why they should come first and always.

And yes, the shooter “thought it was unloaded” which in his mind gave him permission to point at himself and others.

 

[cbhausen]

I don't think you can stop ineptness and stupidity. You simply can't make enough rules.

I personally teach a combination of the rules. Muzzle awareness, trigger discipline, always be sure of the target and beyond.
I think it should also be taught in schools again. Everyone should be taught this stuff so they can recognize the dangers. The ladies in that video willingly stood right in front of that idiot pointing a gun at them.

I have heard many people argue about loaded chambers.

I respectfully disagree with “You simply can’t make enough rules.”

The key is to make “just enough” rules and teach them well.

 

[jake blue]

I respectfully disagree with “You simply can’t make enough rules.”

The key is to make “just enough” rules and teach them well.

I would agree. Too many rules just overwhelms the learner so most of them are forgotten anyways. A few cardinal rules then fundamental principles to live by.

It's a lot like teaching new trucker drivers. I can't teach a million rules for being safe on the road... I can't even expect them to remember half of what was in the Driver's Manual they had to parrot back just to pass the test and get their license. But I can teach them a few cardinal rules and then reinforce the underlying principles of safe professional driving which will then be the foundation for them to develop their skills and not become one of the first-year-driving accident statistics. Gun ownership probably needs fewer memorized rules but more practiced fundamentals and I'd think not putting one's hand in front of any gun seems like a pretty obvious fundamental.

Maybe there's a higher law at work here - Darwin's Law!

 

[Jaybird1980]

I respectfully disagree with “You simply can’t make enough rules.”

The key is to make “just enough” rules and teach them well.

I mean making rules is not going to fix the problem, no matter how many you make or how you word them. The rules needed already exist and have for a long time.

Educating people about the rules is more important than how the rules are worded. Doesn't matter if there are 3 rules, 4 rules or 50 rules. It simply doesn't matter if they are not taught and followed.

My statement should have been. You can't make enough rules to stop ineptness and carelessness.

 

[VERT]

3 rules vs 4 rules, 9mm vs .45, Glock vs 1911.

The problem isn’t rules or even how they worded. The issue revolves around context and mindset.

 

[BugI02]

Safety is just like SA, if you don't practice regularly it doesn't work. Purely from personal experience, the people who only shoot a couple of times per year struggle, not because they don't know the rules but because they lack practice putting them to use

 

[JettaKnight]

I mean making rules is not going to fix the problem, no matter how many you make or how you word them. The rules needed already exist and have for a long time.

Educating people about the rules is more important than how the rules are worded. Doesn't matter if there are 3 rules, 4 rules or 50 rules. It simply doesn't matter if they are not taught and followed.

My statement should have been. You can't make enough rules to stop ineptness and carelessness.

We all agree on that - the question is, "what's the best way to teach?"


I contend that the NRA's rule are superior for teaching than Cooper's. (no disrespect, RIP)

 

[Jaybird1980]

We all agree on that - the question is, "what's the best way to teach?"


I contend that the NRA's rule are superior for teaching than Cooper's. (no disrespect, RIP)

I mentioned it earlier, I choose to teach a combination of them both. I teach my kids muzzle awareness is #1, the muzzle should not be pointed at anything you don't want destroyed. #2 trigger discipline. The finger does not touch the trigger until you are ready to fire. #3 target awareness and beyond.

I have no problem with someone teaching the Cooper's Rules or NRA's rules though. I think they should be explaining them enough for the person to understand the intent. Safety.

Of course people will always overcomplicate it and pick the meanings apart, but no matter which you choose they will both keep you safe if they're followed. If you don't like the way Cooper's#1 is worded ignore it, it doesn't matter as long as the other 3 are followed.

I think something like, "these rules apply to all guns" would take care of it.

 

[cbhausen]

It shouldn’t matter if it’s loaded or not. The phrase “I didn’t know it was loaded” is no excuse. Ever.

I do like how John Correia rephrases NRA’s rule number 1 to “direction of least consequence”. Perfectly sensible.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I have my own spin on Firearm Safety Rules that I only do with Hands On Instruction. I will however say this. We know as facts that the written word or the mundane recital of anyones 3 or 4 rules has a fail rate of the student actually learning them. Recital is on thing, living them is another. With my method of instruction, there is no doubt my students have it practiced and engrained to awareness. I don’t care if they can recite them, I need them to own them. If they can’t pass the eval on this very important foundation of ALL firearm use, I advise them to sell the gun.

Both NRA and Coopers Rules were penned many years ago before the advancement in language and teaching improvements that we have made along the way. And don’t forget that the student has changed since then. Today we have to deal with more anxiety disorders, consequenceless ( my own word) order, tighter time schedules and of course you tube college.

DIY is a real thing and self taught firearms education is no exception. READING the 3 or 4 rules and then getting the NRA training cert doesn’t cut it. A trainer irresponsibly waving a blue gun around in a class room doesn’t cut it. The associated “inert gun” promotes a difference between a real lethal gun and a prop. Ask Baldwin.
I used to use blue guns in my first year of NRA training. Gave it up forever as the class associated that it’s OK to break the rules with it…..or in other words…..it ain’t loaded.

Accidents and Negligence is still getting peeps hurt and killed every day. Sometimes with blood on the diploma.

Hope this help shed some light about the OLD written rules.