The mechanics of shooting, I'm not getting better.

[WebSnyper]

I don't know how old you are or how good your eyes are but my shooting went south due to my aging eyes. Precision alignment of the sights is just a memory for me now.
I had some good shooting glasses made and it helped a lot but it's not the same as a good set of young eyes.

Yep, I have this going on as well. Definitely impacts my ability to shoot groups on paper. This is why I like shooting steel. I understand the shoot small, miss small, but my eyes will only do so much these days. Center mass and hitting a reasonable sized piece of steel with double taps, at 15 yards is where I live these days.

 

[NHT3]

I would imagine that either of the pistols you talk about are capable of running bullets in the same hole at 7 yards with decent ammo. Have someone that knows what they are doing shoot your pistols and watch you shoot them. It appears the browning has sights that are black on black. For most people that is not a good combination. Seeing the sights and being able to focus on them is two different things.
Also it would be helpful to know where your errors are in relation to where you are aiming. You have enough trigger time to be capable of hitting exactly where you are aiming with slow fire if your fundamentals are sound.. You will be pleasantly surprised what you are capable of with some good training..
I second the motion for training from Coach.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member [/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]
Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer
[FONT=&amp]“[/FONT]Safety is not something that you hold in your hands, it happens between your ears”
Col. Jeff Cooper

 

[halfmileharry]

Decent ammo is critical.
I never imagined the huge difference at 7 yards ammo can make.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

Sportsman's guide has a sale on laser bullets.
when you train with them. Do not think about using the laser bullet.
That negates the help.
Draw and fire. You will see the laser jump when you make a mistake.
Then analyze how you shot.
You make adjustments and see how it effect your shots.
The only problem is your reaction to recoil.

 

[BE Mike]

Decent ammo is critical.
I never imagined the huge difference at 7 yards ammo can make.

Really? My experience is absolutely opposite of this. I've done a lot of pistol ammo testing with a Ransom Rest over the years and I found that just about any ammo will group well out to 25 yards. That is considering the accuracy of handgun is up to par and the trigger action and sights are good. I pretty much know that any bad shots on the target are operator error. I also have very old eyes and with the proper correction, I can still shoot pretty well. Trigger control is the most important factor, once all the bad habits have been overcome. A handgun shooter can have less than stellar technique and still shoot pretty good groups two-handed unsupported.

 

[IndyGlockMan]

Yeah, ammo is a key factor. Hollow points are usually a little more accurate than ball ammo.
Quality ammo will have better components and is usually more consistent in the projectile and powder grain weights.
Quality is important, but mostly it's seeing which bullet weight performs the best through the twist rate of your barrel.
On rifles, this is critical. Pistols, not quite as critical, but if you are going for accuracy it's a factor for sure.
I had a Ruger 10/22 with a Butler Creek Barrel and tried 10-15 different brands & weights of bullets until I found the one that was the most consistently accurate, then I bought several bricks of it from the same lot#.
I went through the same thing when working up loads for my Ruger Precision 308.

 

[Bfish]

IF you can get an instructor or someone to square you away with some things like your grip, and manipulating the trigger correctly I think it will put you ahead of the curve. Than I'd just go slow focus hard on your front sight and not try to run before you walk. Add in snap caps if you need, and use your dominate eye. I'd try and get ahold of the DEA dot targets or something like that and shoot very slow at a halfway close distance like 7 years at small targets. Get that mastered and then move on. Took that approach with a new shooter and it was amazing to see what it'll do. I still go to the range and shoot small dots at close range focusing on sight, tracking it, getting two sight pictures, managing the recoil, and the trigger correctly and doing everything I can to fine tune the important stuff. I am by no means an amazing shooter but doing the "fundamentals" is a necessity for me to stay "with it" per say. There are some very good shooters in here commenting, but getting a good instructor and approaching the mechanics in the right way is what's key. Plus don't give up. One of my favorite quotes is "shooting is simple, it's not easy."
It may sounds silly but at a certain point trying things wrong handed (opposite) can shed some light but that may be for further down the road. I know a guy who kept telling me his gun shot left. I had him shoot it left handed and all of the sudden things started landing where they were supposed to and he saw it was him and not his sights.

 

[Coach]

Do you see the whole appear on paper or do you see the front sight lift in recoil?

Shorten your trigger finger up. It is in too deep.

Both eyes open is nice but not essential.

Pressing the trigger and keeping it pinned back at the rear of the triggers motion? Or slapping it?

Front sight focus?

 

[churchmouse]

Coach is here.

 

[edporch]

Yes, if you want to fix a flinch problem, use the "buddy system".
We used this technique in a shooting class (S351 "Leadership Development in Shooting Sports") I took at IU Bloomington back in the mid 1970's.

Have somebody else load each round in the chamber and either load a live round or a dummy round without you knowing what they loaded.
You'll find out quick if you're flinching, and keep working with the other person loading until you get rid of the flinch.
We used it in rifle and pistol, and it really works to improve your technique.

We started out on .22 rifles then pistols, and didn't move on to higher powered stuff until we got the technique down using the .22's.

 

[cedartop]

Really? My experience is absolutely opposite of this. I've done a lot of pistol ammo testing with a Ransom Rest over the years and I found that just about any ammo will group well out to 25 yards. That is considering the accuracy of handgun is up to par and the trigger action and sights are good. I pretty much know that any bad shots on the target are operator error. I also have very old eyes and with the proper correction, I can still shoot pretty well. Trigger control is the most important factor, once all the bad habits have been overcome. A handgun shooter can have less than stellar technique and still shoot pretty good groups two-handed unsupported.

I agree with trigger control being the most important (unless you have a grip like a ransom rest), however I will say that I have seen accuracy vary wildly in ammo. Is that the OP's problem? Likely not.

 

[BE Mike]

I agree with trigger control being the most important (unless you have a grip like a ransom rest), however I will say that I have seen accuracy vary wildly in ammo. Is that the OP's problem? Likely not.

Yes ammo accuracy can vary widely, but it would be hard to tell at only 7 yards.

 

[Grelber]

do you see the front sight lift in recoil?

Coach can polish a turd if he finds one that will pay attention (I do sometimes).

Other thing, 22's are the worst if allowed to lead up. Would be good to hand your gun to a good shooter just so you eliminate the gun/ammo question.

 

[Doublehelix]

Wait. You mean you are *supposed* to hit the bullseye??? No wonder everyone thinks I suck at shooting!!!

 

[gglass]

This video by Rob Leatherman does not go into the mechanics of shooting, but it does really hit home to those who think that they should be shooting better, but don't...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0rGtXh23I

 

[sloughfoot]

Being proficient with a handgun doesn't mean that you are an expert bullseye shooter. If your goal is every shot in the center, buy the equipment and play the bullseye game.

I tried bullseye for 10 years. I was never very good at it.

However, I am proficient with my handguns. I consider my point shooting skills to be far more important than my bullseye skills.

 

[BE Mike]

Being proficient with a handgun doesn't mean that you are an expert bullseye shooter. If your goal is every shot in the center, buy the equipment and play the bullseye game.

I tried bullseye for 10 years. I was never very good at it.

However, I am proficient with my handguns.

This is very true. Nobody has to become a bullseye pistol shooter to become proficient with handguns. One thing about the bullseye game though, it is the refinement of the basic fundamentals of marksmanship and requires safe gun handling. Once one has a handle on the fundamentals, one can add the other necessary skills to become a pistolero. I think it is easier for one build other skills from a base of the fundamentals of marksmanship, instead of the other way around.

 

[NHT3]

Yes ammo accuracy can vary widely, but it would be hard to tell at only 7 yards.

I'm certainly not a Ransom rest, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night but I can tell you that point of impact does in fact change with different ammo @ 7 yards, so in essence accuracy is affected. At least for me through my Glock 19. YMMV

[FONT=&quot]NRA Life Member [/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&quot] /[/FONT][FONT=&quot] RSO[/FONT]
Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“[/FONT]Safety is not something that you hold in your hands, it happens between your ears”
Col. Jeff Cooper

 

[Grelber]

I can tell you that point of impact does in fact change with different ammo @ 7 yards, so in essence accuracy is affected.r

I think most folks think of accuracy as repeatability-group size, and point of impact as a different thang.

 

[WanderingSol07]

A lot of good info and an update from me. Shooting three different .22lrs and my .380, my group size is all the same, about 5" at 7 yards, mostly right of the bullseye by 1" (I'm a lefty). I got a laser cartridge (G-Sight for my .380) and I shoot the same with it. So I am moving the gun to the right when pulling the trigger. I'll try shooting right hand and see what happens.