The Millionaire Cop Next Door

[4sarge]

Do you also get health benefits in retirement? I so, that is a HUGE cost.

By my calculations, if you retired in 2028 making $60K you would be getting $42K per year in retirement benefits, equal to 70% of your pay. Is this correct? If so, that is something to brag about. I wish that my job would pay me 70% of my pay in retirement.

Rich off of Tax Money, Right My neighbor & good friend Retired as the Chief of Police (Population 2500) with 28 years of service. His PERF Pension Check is 200 Dollars per Month with No Benefits. He's 67 years old and works every day to get by.

I hardly feel that is appropriate or stealing the Tax Payer Dollar

 

[lashicoN]

Rich off of Tax Money, Right My neighbor & good friend Retired as the Chief of Police (Population 2500) with 28 years of service. His PERF Pension Check is 200 Dollars per Month with No Benefits. He's 67 years old and works every day to get by.

I hardly feel that is appropriate or stealing the Tax Payer Dollar

I don't want to sound like a cold jerk here, but during his career, did he generate a single penny of income for the state of Indiana or for the United States? Or did he just hit citizens with an extra tax for speeding? That doesn't create real revenue for our State or Country.

 

[4sarge]

I don't want to sound like a cold jerk here, but during his career, did he generate a single penny of income for the state of Indiana or for the United States? Or did he just hit citizens with an extra tax for speeding? That doesn't create real revenue for our State or Country.

Well, You Are

 

[USMC_0311]

Cops don't make enough money, biggest reason I am not one. I say pay them more and the quality will go up.

 

[Eddie]

I don't want to sound like a cold jerk here, but during his career, did he generate a single penny of income for the state of Indiana or for the United States? Or did he just hit citizens with an extra tax for speeding? That doesn't create real revenue for our State or Country.

Well, the street department, parks and rec, fire department, ambulance service, dog catcher, building inspector, county clerk, circuit court judge, sheriff, mayor, town board and any other office can be said not to generate income. Arguably only those offices that collect taxes, levy fines and sell permits generate incomes. I think that the fair analyses is to look at whether or not the citizens who are paying the taxes are receiving value for the things that they are paying for.

I want a well trained group of police, firefighters and ambulance workers in my neighborhood. I want smooth roads to drive on. Most taxpayers want some version of government services at their disposal. The real questions are "How much government service?" and "Am I getting what I paid for?" If I call the fire departement because my house is on fire and they don't show up because they are busy playing basketball I'm going to be angry. If I need to record a deed and the recorder's office is closed due to lack of staffing I'm going to be angry.

Cops sit at the worst end of this spectrum because they are saddled with some of the most negative types of citizen encounters. They don't produce smooth roads or well maintained parks for the people to see and they don't only show up when folks want them to show up. It is hard to measure whether or not they are doing a good job but easy to identify when they are doing something that ticks us off.

What is the value of a night spent walking a beat in freezing weather to check every single business in a neighborhood for signs of burglary? How does that effort compare to arresting a drunk driver or writing ten speeding tickets? What if they just hang out in front of the mini mart and respond to calls?

I don't know what a good answer to these questions is. I know that some citizens in my town have gotten angry when the morning paper shows ten arrests for drunk driving but that several businesses were vandalized with graffiti overnight. They wanted to know where their tax dollars were being spent, yet, Mothers Against Drunk Driving lauded the efforts of the same department as being right in line with their objectives. We had a mayor for a while that went out at night and patrolled on his own, not to look for crime, but to look for police officers hanging out at the mini mart instead of patrolling.

I think the best answer is that the activities of the police should be in direct response to the expectations of the citizens they serve. The community needs to have some say in the type of service that they receive. We don't need "cookie cutter" policemen coming out of the academy because what is good for Indianapolis is probably not the same type of service that folks want in Dana, Indiana.

 

[clt46910]

I do know one millionaire cop. He hit the lotto. Well not actually a million, but half a million. Does that count?

 

[dross]

Compensation - pay and benefits - are the same as the price for a particular person's labor. How are prices determined? By how much somone will pay for a particular item. In the private sector, in general, a company wants to get the most qualified person for the least amount of pay. Nothing nefarious in this, it's the same as you wanting to buy a gallon of milk for the least amount.

The public sector operates using a different currency, that of politics. The pay for public sector work is often skewed one way or another based on different factors than the market clearing price for that labor.

If you are offering a job and getting lots of people who exceed the qualifications you asked for, your compensation is too high. If you offer a job and get few or no candidates who meet your qualifications, you're paying too low. Finding the right combination between qualifications and resources is the goal. The private sector is able to do this somewhat better because of the flexibility. The public sector will always have some problems, but they don't have to be as far off as they often are.

Where I live, near Colorado Springs, CO, the pay and benefits are such that at one time (this was a couple of years ago, I claim no current knowledge) there were 2000 applicants for every open police or firefighter position. As a citizen, I'd say we're paying too much in that case.

One of the angry issues with public employees here is the special retirement program they recieve. Under this program, they are exempt from contributing to social security. They can receive as much as 100% of their highest monthly pay. Their benefits are the same, regardless of how their fund performs on the market. The taxpayers are required by law to make up any differences. The big issue here is that taxpayers whose retirement funds have been decimated are now required to pony up for public retirees whose fund is not subject to the consequences of bad luck or bad management, but reap the benefits of a good market. In the 90s, when the fund did very well, the board increased the retiree payouts. Now, when the market is doing poorly, they can't by law reduce those increases, instead, people who have watched their own retirement funds reduced must now pay more in taxes.

These are some of the things that make people angry. And BTW, the retirement fund here is so generous that it is certainly the equivalent of being a millionaire. They may not have a million in hand at the moment, but their retirement payout over the time of their retirement will be more than someone who retired at the same time with a million in cash could pay himself over that same period of time.

 

[4sarge]

One of the angry issues with public employees here is the special retirement program they receive. Under this program, they are exempt from contributing to social security. They can receive as much as 100% of their highest monthly pay. Their benefits are the same, regardless of how their fund performs on the market. The taxpayers are required by law to make up any differences. The big issue here is that taxpayers whose retirement funds have been decimated are now required to pony up for public retirees whose fund is not subject to the consequences of bad luck or bad management, but reap the benefits of a good market. In the 90s, when the fund did very well, the board increased the retiree payouts. Now, when the market is doing poorly, they can't by law reduce those increases, instead, people who have watched their own retirement funds reduced must now pay more in taxes.

These are some of the things that make people angry. And BTW, the retirement fund here is so generous that it is certainly the equivalent of being a millionaire. They may not have a million in hand at the moment, but their retirement payout over the time of their retirement will be more than someone who retired at the same time with a million in cash could pay himself over that same period of time.

NOT True in Indiana for Most PERF participants. I always PAID My Equal Share into Social Security every paycheck even though I was in PERF and that Math formula doesn't compute for a normal Indiana PERF account. IPD was allowed to opt out of SS on salary but I'm not sure that is even true today.

http://rider.wharton.upenn.edu/~prc/PRC/WP/wp99-22.pdf

 

[dross]

NOT True in Indiana for Most PERF participants. I always PAID My Equal Share into Social Security every paycheck even though I was in PERF and that Math formula doesn't compute for a normal Indiana PERF account. IPD was allowed to opt out of SS on salary but I'm not sure that is even true today.

Fair enough, though I think the OP was about a broader problem across the nation. Indiana may be more sensible than most, Colorado is certainly more sensible than some of the more blue states. It would probably be scary to check out the New York or California programs.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I found this on a website but now I can't find the website's URL. I would not trust this figure until better proof is found:

Job Title: Police Sergeant
Closing Date/Time: Fri. 02/13/09 5:00 PM Pacific Time
Salary: $40.87 – $53.61 hourly
$3,269.54 – $4,288.62 biweekly
$7,084.00 – $9,292.00 monthly
$85,008.00 – $111,504.00 annually

I did find this... again, unsure how reliable it is:

Police Officer Salaries in Beverly Hills, CA - Free Salary Search | Indeed.com

Beverly Hills Police Officers starting wage is 55K.
Job Type: Full-time
Location: Beverly Hills Police Department, California

I'd like to see the house you are able to buy in Beverly Hills on a 55K/year salary.

Someone else on the board (Bigum?) described a few of his experiences in better words... than I ever did but they applied to me as well. When and if I previously (past tense) go out of my way to say hello or smile at an LEO, more often than not I get nothing in return but silence and a glare

I can't speak for other LEOs, but if someone takes the time to say hello or smile at me, I respond in kind. For one it helps me to show the public that not all LEOs are *******s all the time, and it shows me that there are people in the community that don't hate me just because of my uniform and what I represent.

I know I'm not going to sway anyone's opinion of LE, especially if it is negative in the first place. Frankly, I don't care. I do my job to the best of my ability, legally and morally, and if someone still dislikes me simply because of my job, tough ****.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Ok. Let's say it doesn't carry over. If you live for 25 more years after retirement, at $80k / year, you just made $2,000,000.

Still not a fair comparison. Care to take a stab at what 2,000,000 at 4% interest compounded over 25 years would be?

 

[4sarge]

Fair enough, though I think the OP was about a broader problem across the nation. Indiana may be more sensible than most, Colorado is certainly more sensible than some of the more blue states. It would probably be scary to check out the New York or California programs.

This is Indiana and both OP's knew that fact

Still not a fair comparison. Care to take a stab at what 2,000,000 at 4% interest compounded over 25 years would be?

Who makes 80,000 dollars? and The Police Pension is computed at the rate of a 1st year Patrolman's salary. If Not under the Police Perf (which all departments are not) it is based on the average of your highest 5 year salary and no where near the dollar figures claimed here. Wait, you are correct, If I live to be 200 before I die I just might squeak in that 2 Mill LOL

 

[kabrown]

I'd like to see the house you are able to buy in Beverly Hills on a 55K/year salary.



I can't speak for other LEOs, but if someone takes the time to say hello or smile at me, I respond in kind. For one it helps me to show the public that not all LEOs are *******s all the time, and it shows me that there are people in the community that don't hate me just because of my uniform and what I represent.

I know I'm not going to sway anyone's opinion of LE, especially if it is negative in the first place. Frankly, I don't care. I do my job to the best of my ability, legally and morally, and if someone still dislikes me simply because of my job, tough ****.

I think the real issue is customer service. You say that if someone says hello to you then you will respond. How about you say hello and smile at them first? That's what happens when I walk into almost every business that is worth a damn. The employee greets me in a friendly manner and asks how he can help me. If the employee is discourteous or unattentive, then I have the choice of not going back to that business. If enough people don't like the way they are being treated in a business, then the business will go out of business.

I don't have that option with public servants. The government takes my money and gives it to the public employees and I have no choice but to put up with whatever attitude they give me.

I'm sure there are people who don't like cops just because of the uniform. I think there are a a lot more who don't like them because they have been treated rudely or arrogantly by them and they have no choice but to sit there and take it. I think more people would like the police if the police would simply be cordial and courteous. A little respect goes a long way.

I'm not trying to single out LEOs, because I think this mindset is rampant among public service employees. They feel like they are entitled to treat their employers (the taxpayers) any way they want because there are no real consequences for being rude.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm not trying to single out LEOs, because I think this mindset is rampant among public service employees. They feel like they are entitled to treat their employers (the taxpayers) any way they want because there are no real consequences for being rude.

The lack of competition makes it much easier for those providing a service to be rude. While I was stationed in Germany, I did most of my shopping at the AAFES px. It was the only game in town unless you wanted to drive several miles and shop on the German economy. AAFES had a captive audience and it reflected greatly on their service. It flat sucked.

Go to any local government office in your court house and see how courteous they are. I'm building a house and have had to deal with several of those offices. For the most part, I've actually been surprised at how well I was treated. Not because the service has been that great but I haven't gotten the run around on every single thing.

My new house is on a gravel road and the many cement trucks were making it a nightmare to drive on this spring. I saw a county highway dump truck a few miles away hauling stone. I flagged him down and asked him if he was going to my road. He didn't know anything about it and said they'd stop to look at it. Within a week, they had hauled several truck loads on my road and over the last few months, they've periodically put more in. I expected an attitude from that truck driver. "You need to call my supervisor and fill out 16 forms in triplicate" etc. is what I expected.

I point out these good interactions because they are not the norm for what one could expect from government.

 

[UncleMike]

Who makes 80,000 dollars? and The Police Pension is computed at the rate of a 1st year Patrolman's salary. If Not under the Police Perf (which all departments are not) it is based on the average of your highest 5 year salary and no where near the dollar figures claimed here. Wait, you are correct, If I live to be 200 before I die I just might squeak in that 2 Mill LOL

Actually Sarge, it's 1st Class Patrolman.
First year Patrolman's wages are normally referred to as "Probationary Salary" and are not used to compute PERF benefits.
I'm not sure where the "Urban Legend" started that Police PERF is the same as other Public Employees PERF.
Maybe because the acronym is the same, but they are different animals. Maybe that is the crux of the issue.
Mike

 

[JBusch8899]

Cops don't make enough money, biggest reason I am not one. I say pay them more and the quality will go up.

Require more in the manner of qualifications first.

An inner city High School Diploma shouldn't be the only educational criteria. No doubt that the criminals are smarter than many of those enforcing the law.

 

[USMC_0311]

Require more in the manner of qualifications first.

An inner city High School Diploma shouldn't be the only educational criteria. No doubt that the criminals are smarter than many of those enforcing the law.

My point was higher pay will attract better applicants.

The standard should be set high as far as the qualifications, I agree.

 

[Eddie]

Compensation -
If you are offering a job and getting lots of people who exceed the qualifications you asked for, your compensation is too high. If you offer a job and get few or no candidates who meet your qualifications, you're paying too low. Finding the right combination between qualifications and resources is the goal. The private sector is able to do this somewhat better because of the flexibility. The public sector will always have some problems, but they don't have to be as far off as they often are.

Where I live, near Colorado Springs, CO, the pay and benefits are such that at one time (this was a couple of years ago, I claim no current knowledge) there were 2000 applicants for every open police or firefighter position. As a citizen, I'd say we're paying too much in that case.

.

We used to take applications every other year. They called it doing a "hiring process". I think we got about 2,000 apps each time, but the vast majority of them were not qualified. Some couldn't pass the background check, more failed at the written and physical exams or the lie detector. It would usually weed down to a list of a dozen or so people out of 2,000 and not all of them would get hired, they just got put on a list and hired if any positions opened.

I don't think it was about the pay or the benefits though. A lot of people just really want a job in law enforcement.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

How about you say hello and smile at them first?

How do you know I don't?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Require more in the manner of qualifications first.

An inner city High School Diploma shouldn't be the only educational criteria. No doubt that the criminals are smarter than many of those enforcing the law.

I used to actually agree with a lot of what you have posted on INGO but you just shot yourself in the foot with that one. Having a bachelors, masters, or doctorate degree doesn't mean **** in the real world. It means that you are able to take information in and regurgitate it in the appropriate spaces to pass the tests. Street smarts are what really count in LE and I would venture to guess that a lot of people with degrees would make ****ty cops.