THE NO WEAPONS ALLOWED SIGN.

[Fixer]

Forgot what the OP was by the time I got to page 4 so,

What DRob said!!

 

[Boost Lee]

What Pages 5 of 5 said.

Boom.

 

[GuyRelford]

For everyone who repeats the common mantra that "no firearms signs don't have the force of law," please be careful. While you're absolutely correct that most signs merely state the business' policy - and ignoring those signs doesn't constitute a criminal act unless you're asked to leave and refuse - a sign with the right language could have the force of law.

For example, if the following sign were posted conspicuously at the main entrance, in a manner that is "likely to come to the attention of the public," I believe that you could be prosecuted for criminal trespass merely for entering the premises with a firearm:

NOTICE: NO FIREARMS ALLOWED
ANYONE POSSESSING A FIREARM IS HEREBY DENIED ENTRY TO THESE PREMISES

Firearms are not allowed on these premises, and ANY PERSON POSSESSING A FIREARM IS HEREBY EXPRESSLY DENIED ENTRY to these premises pursuant to Ind. Code 35-44-2-2(b)(2).
Violators will be prosecuted for criminal trespass without additional notice or warning.

So while it might be safe to ignore most "no firearms" signs, this one would worry me.

Guy​

​

 

[2A_Tom]

Thank you Guy,

I just hope that no anti's take your excelent legal advice.

My normally OC unless it is a resteraunt then I wear a light vest or a suitcoat. I don't want to be told I can't eat.

I don't look for signs when I enter and have never been asked to leave even when I know I have been made.

I am not trying to make a point for CC so please ( the rest of you) don't rebuke me, I just like to et.

 

[E'villeGunner]

I just like to et.

mmmmmmm Bacon!!!

 

[melensdad]

For everyone who repeats the common mantra that "no firearms signs don't have the force of law," please be careful. While you're absolutely correct that most signs merely state the business' policy - and ignoring those signs doesn't constitute a criminal act unless you're asked to leave and refuse - a sign with the right language could have the force of law.

For example, if the following sign were posted conspicuously at the main entrance, in a manner that is "likely to come to the attention of the public," I believe that you could be prosecuted for criminal trespass merely for entering the premises with a firearm:

So while it might be safe to ignore most "no firearms" signs, this one would worry me.

Guy​

Guy, just curious, have you, or one of your clients, ever encountered such a sign in Indiana?

I've seen the official 30-06 signs in Texas, but I've never seen a sign remotely close to having the wording like you posted.

 

[GuyRelford]

Guy, just curious, have you, or one of your clients, ever encountered such a sign in Indiana?

I've seen the official 30-06 signs in Texas, but I've never seen a sign remotely close to having the wording like you posted.

Nope. Although someone posted one here on INGO a few months ago that had the words "denied entry" in it- so it was pretty close!

Guy

 

[JetGirl]

Guy, I have a question about those signs...
I have seen one similar to the one you find worrisome...but it was inside a building (past the entrance, past the lobby, past two sets of double doors) before being able to be viewed. If the sign is not on the entrance, and you're already well inside the building before it's presented to you... what of that?

 

[IndyClay]

If you effectively CC do such store polices really matter? The worst case scenario is that your weapon is seen and you are asked to leave (I would never patronize that establishment again). As long as you are a LTCH holder and are not in a restricted area as defined in the IC then all they can do is ask you to leave. I have never had an issue with this as I carry iwb either a snub .357 or compact 9mm. I usually do a mirror check before leaving every day to make sure I am not printing. I have gone out with friends in all types of weather/clothing to dinner, movies, shopping, even jogging and none have said anything (and quite a few of my friends are anti-gun). I feel the same way about OC as I do about a fat man going topless down a busy street...sure he is legally allowed but nobody wants to see that, and if you walk in a store you'll be asked to put on a shirt...why draw undue attention? Know the law, be covert, and be confident anywhere you go.

 

[Tydeeh22]

NOTICE: NO FIREARMS ALLOWED
ANYONE POSSESSING A FIREARM IS HEREBY DENIED ENTRY TO THESE PREMISES

Firearms are not allowed on these premises, and ANY PERSON POSSESSING A FIREARM IS HEREBY EXPRESSLY DENIED ENTRY to these premises pursuant to Ind. Code 35-44-2-2(b)(2).
Violators will be prosecuted for criminal trespass without additional notice or warning.

dont give em any more ideas Guy..

 

[Roadie]

If you effectively CC do such store polices really matter? The worst case scenario is that your weapon is seen and you are asked to leave (I would never patronize that establishment again). As long as you are a LTCH holder and are not in a restricted area as defined in the IC then all they can do is ask you to leave. I have never had an issue with this as I carry iwb either a snub .357 or compact 9mm. I usually do a mirror check before leaving every day to make sure I am not printing. I have gone out with friends in all types of weather/clothing to dinner, movies, shopping, even jogging and none have said anything (and quite a few of my friends are anti-gun). I feel the same way about OC as I do about a fat man going topless down a busy street...sure he is legally allowed but nobody wants to see that, and if you walk in a store you'll be asked to put on a shirt...why draw undue attention? Know the law, be covert, and be confident anywhere you go.

Exactly, God forbid anyone know you are exercising your Rights!

 

[Stschil]

If you effectively CC do such store polices really matter? The worst case scenario is that your weapon is seen and you are asked to leave (I would never patronize that establishment again). As long as you are a LTCH holder and are not in a restricted area as defined in the IC then all they can do is ask you to leave. I have never had an issue with this as I carry iwb either a snub .357 or compact 9mm. I usually do a mirror check before leaving every day to make sure I am not printing. I have gone out with friends in all types of weather/clothing to dinner, movies, shopping, even jogging and none have said anything (and quite a few of my friends are anti-gun). I feel the same way about OC as I do about a fat man going topless down a busy street...sure he is legally allowed but nobody wants to see that, and if you walk in a store you'll be asked to put on a shirt...why draw undue attention? Know the law, be covert, and be confident anywhere you go.

I totally agree. I wear these too

So noone will suspect a thing until its too late.

 

[IndyClay]

Ok Stschil,
I get the joshing (hope the comment was made in jest). And Roadie, I get where you come from as well... I am just saying that my personal defense gameplan is based upon covert tactics. I live in "the big city in Indiana" full of BGs and yuppies alike. I have chosen a method of foiling both by being well armed for various urban scenarios, discreetly. My daily urban "out the door" kit consists of:
-keys
-cell phone
-2,000,000 SU pepper spray
-S&W serrated pocket knife
-.357 snub/compact 9mm iwb w/ 3 reloads (reloads in undershirt jogger/streamline fanny pack)
And yes I keep all of this concealed pretty well on my person in war weather, jogging, or dress attire.

 

[Stschil]

Ok Stschil,
I get the joshing (hope the comment was made in jest). And Roadie, I get where you come from as well... I am just saying that my personal defense gameplan is based upon covert tactics. I live in "the big city in Indiana" full of BGs and yuppies alike. I have chosen a method of foiling both by being well armed for various urban scenarios, discreetly. My daily urban "out the door" kit consists of:
-keys
-cell phone
-2,000,000 SU pepper spray
-S&W serrated pocket knife
-.357 snub/compact 9mm iwb w/ 3 reloads (reloads in undershirt jogger/streamline fanny pack)
And yes I keep all of this concealed pretty well on my person in war weather, jogging, or dress attire.

Noone here will fault you for your own personal choices. OC/CC/Condition Butterscotch, whatever works best for you and you've got my salute But, please don't slip down the slope of assuming your choices are whats best for all.

 

[Tydeeh22]

My daily urban "out the door" kit consists of:
-keys
-cell phone
-2,000,000 SU pepper spray
-S&W serrated pocket knife
-.357 snub/compact 9mm iwb w/ 3 reloads (reloads in undershirt jogger/streamline fanny pack)
And yes I keep all of this concealed pretty well on my person in war weather, jogging, or dress attire.

i've got to ask.. when you carry as deep concealed as you say, what do you do when "you" are the target and end up needing more than 5 seconds to get to your firearm / spray / pointy sharp object? remember, the average human crosses 21 feet in oh... 2-3 seconds? just an observation.

 

[IndyClay]

@Ty
Lots, and lots of practice, job training, and real life experience. Before I moved back to Indiana I lived and worked in Washington, DC for a few years. Requirements of my job trained me in methods of concealment and quick target acquisition. I guarantee I would be able to draw my weapon and put several shots on mass in less than 5 seconds as you stated. I'd say my slowest draw under stress was about 2.5 seconds. If you want to talk more about this please PM me, I am happy to talk about my training and such.
-Clay

 

[GuyRelford]

Guy, I have a question about those signs...
I have seen one similar to the one you find worrisome...but it was inside a building (past the entrance, past the lobby, past two sets of double doors) before being able to be viewed. If the sign is not on the entrance, and you're already well inside the building before it's presented to you... what of that?

Great question. The criminal trespass statute says that a person may be "denied entry" through a conspicuous posting "at the main entrance" to property, so that may likely provide a defense if you were prosecuted under the circumstances you describe. Nonetheless, I would still be concerned about being detected with a firearm in a building with such a sign, since it does otherwise track the language of the statute.

Guy

 

[JetGirl]

Great question. The criminal trespass statute says that a person may be "denied entry" through a conspicuous posting "at the main entrance" to property, so that may likely provide a defense if you were prosecuted under the circumstances you describe. Nonetheless, I would still be concerned about being detected with a firearm in a building with such a sign, since it does otherwise track the language of the statute.

Guy

Thanks. Sometimes there's not enough time (last minute) to adjust for things like that before you have to be where you have to be...and well, concealed does mean concealed!

 

[hoosierdoc]

My layperson's understanding of IC is that They could NOT have a policy about guns and the employee could legally make one up and kick you out because secretly he doesn't like your unibrow. He could say "no leather wallets" and boot you too. Love the private property laws

 

[Hammerhead]

Guy, just curious, have you, or one of your clients, ever encountered such a sign in Indiana?

I've seen the official 30-06 signs in Texas, but I've never seen a sign remotely close to having the wording like you posted.

Nope. Although someone posted one here on INGO a few months ago that had the words "denied entry" in it- so it was pretty close!

Guy

The closest one I've seen is at Chuck E. Cheese's.

I'll reserve my thoughts on the stupidity of such a sign. I've seen the videos of the fights at certain Chuck E. Cheese's.