The Original "Downrange Photographer" Speaks

[Jackson]

So is the point that sometimes good training means being less than absolutely safe? I would agree with that, but we have to assess whether the risk has any return of value. In my opinion, with so many other options, downrange photography...with a person down there, does not. Certain other training, I would assess on a case by case basis. I readily acknowledge that some training that is very practical may not allow a muzzle to always be pointed downrange and may include "sweeping" others (well, what some would consider a "sweep"). That is real world. Setting up next to the target? No thanks.

The drill in the photo can easily be performed without sweeping anyone with the muzzle.
(I'm neither supporting or criticizing the drill. This is just an observation about your statement in relation to the drill.)

 

[shibumiseeker]

They say it's training you to be prepared for when you have to fire your gun in a more public area.

I'm sure that's part of the reason.

The other reason, I believe, is to create a controversy. To get people talking. More controversy = more business.

James Yeager has said himself that he has created more business because of his videos.

The controversy is certainly a part of it.

I think if you wanted to realistically portray what it's like firing in a public area, you set up a dummy (not a live dummy) next to the target. Hit it and you are instantly fined $20k and have to spend a weekend in jail and have your gun confiscated. THAT would be more realistic.

 

[HoughMade]

The drill in the photo can easily be performed without sweeping anyone with the muzzle.
(I'm neither supporting or criticizing the drill. This is just an observation about your statement in relation to the drill.)

I wasn't specifically talking about a photograph, just training in general.

 

[Jackson]

I wasn't specifically talking about a photograph, just training in general.

I can't think of too many scenarios where sweeping a person cannot be avoided in training. I may rather be down range next to the target than intentionally let someone sweep me because it "couldn't be avoided". I guess it may depend on the circumstances.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

I'm still waiting for Yeager to get back to me on a time we can duel. I haven't heard anything from him since I submitted that duel form.

 

[HoughMade]

I can't think of too many scenarios where sweeping a person cannot be avoided in training. I may rather be down range next to the target than intentionally let someone sweep me because it "couldn't be avoided". I guess it may depend on the circumstances.

That's why I qualified it- "what some people may consider sweeping"

With live ammunition, I would be loath to do it until it's been done a hundred times unloaded or with blue guns, but there are circumstances where people have to move in pairs or groups with people in front of each other. Normally you would keep the gun pointed down...but even pointed in the general direction at the floor, some people would call that a "sweep". I would not want to learn how to move this way for the first time while I am being shot at.

I am not talking about Joe civilian taking his first class. I am talking about professionals or advanced civilians. There are scenarios I can think of...and have seen (seen, not participated in- no "operator" claims here). That's all I am saying.

 

[rhino]

I'm still waiting for Yeager to get back to me on a time we can duel. I haven't heard anything from him since I submitted that duel form.

The response is going to be a surprise. And Tactical.

(What I did there? Did you see it?)

rhino out!

 

[HeadlessRoland]

The response is going to be a surprise. And Tactical.

(What I did there? Did you see it?)

rhino out!

Are rhinos pachyderms?

 

[rhino]

Are rhinos pachyderms?

I say yes! They are members of the order pachydermata, which some consider to be old school taxonomy.

​rhino out!

 

[Roadie]

On a side not, be careful when you google "Purple Rhino"... you have been warned..

 

[iChokePeople]

So...

or...?

 

[rhino]

Two moods from the same beast!!!

 

[VERT]

So...

I predict a new avatar soon.

 

[rhino]

I predict a new avatar soon.

Only after I photoshop a courtesy t-shirt on him!

​rhino out!

 

[irishfan]

I took fighting pistol at TR and can say the downrange photographer did not bother me. The shooting line is close and in all honesty Jay was in my peripheral not my line of sight on the target. Also, he is selective on where he stands as at least one person in my class I know he did not stand near. Its not for everyone and if you dont like it then thats perfectly fine and vote with your money. There is at least one company I wont give my money to on this forum just as there are a few gun shops as well. We can debate all day what is right and wrong but voting with your money is the best solution.

 

[iChokePeople]

We can debate all day what is right and wrong but voting with your money is the best solution.

Mais non! Debating it ad nauseam on the interwebz is the best solution.

 

[HoughMade]

I took fighting pistol at TR and can say the downrange photographer did not bother me...

I'm not really here or there on this whole thing, but I'm not sure the comfort level of the shooter is why there's a controversy.

 

[lovemachine]

So if the photographer is selective on who he chooses to risk his life with, what about the shooter that is NOT chosen?

Does he feel insulted/neglected?

 

[irishfan]

So if the photographer is selective on who he chooses to risk his life with, what about the shooter that is NOT chosen?

Does he feel insulted/neglected?

Well in complete honesty the one I noticed should be concerned with his lack of gun safety. Also, they correct him and helped him as did others around him. One thing I will say about the class I was in was that guys were good about helping each other with any problems and guys spoke up. Jay was the main instructor and I believe Chester was the others name. Anyway they did a good job watching everyone but there were people of all skill levels and where I was at guys would help each other out if they seen something even if instructor didn't. Finally, I was in a good spot as I had Hickman and another shooter as a buffer between me and the muzzle of the one I noticed who he didn't go down range with.

 

[printcraft]

...... Also, he (Jay) is selective on where he stands as at least one person in my class I know he did not stand near. ......

So if the photographer is selective on who he chooses to risk his life with..............

Wait, wait, wait, wait................... I thought this was a completely safe practice and there was no cause to worry?
Why would he not want to stand near this individual?
Nothing is going to happen.
Show me where a down range photographer has been shot....... I'll be waiting......... just one............