The SB 101 (Religious Freedom Restoration) Thread

[jamil]

Thank goodness for religion and tv! How else would I know who I am supposed to hate today? They take the guess work out of life.

I think you're seeing the world through your own custom lens. Or, maybe, you're saying they're saying more than they're saying...because you [strike]hate[/strike] love them.

 

[yepthatsme]

I have voted (R) nearly exclusively in every election since I was eligible to vote. I still believe this is a bad bill. This is directed at one specific group of individuals that some people don't care for. Their religious beliefs also condemn (via the ten commandments) other sinful behaviors, and I fully suspect we will not see people barred for being adulterous, not honoring their mother/father, for saying 'god damn' when angry, those that work on sunday, those that steal, lie or covet their neighbors. Nope... all these people will be welcome with open arms despite the religious objections scribed in stone. They are going to target gays because they personally find them distasteful, not because their religious convictions command them to.

I understand your point of view, but I can think of a few situations that this law could help prevent frivolous lawsuits. What I can't understand is why anyone, being gay or otherwise, would want to try to force a business into a contract knowing the business is against it. Being a small business owner, I have dealt businesses that weren't willing to do a job for some reason only known to them, and it didn't bother me. As a matter of fact, I was glad to find that out because I would put them on my personal list of businesses that I will avoid. I figure that eventually their business will suffer the consequences of their actions or inactions. Karma can be a b***h.

 

[jamil]

Wait. So is the sky falling or not? ...looks out the office window.... Well, it's raining. But the sky's still there. No pieces on the ground.

Oh. Wait. I'm in Louisville. I'll see the pieces when I cross the bridge.

UPDATE:

I realized before leaving home from work that Kentucky also has a RFRA. They've had it much longer than Indiana. Kentucky's sky, at least since I've worked in this state, has never fallen. Well, possibly in coal country. But not for that reason.

And when I got across the bridge last night, I was careful to look around. No sky pieces on the road, or anywhere. I'm very puzzled why people are so afraid. I'm very curious why people think this will really change anything in Indiana. I'm starting to suspect all the outrage might just be ... POLITICAL!

 

[Hawkeye]

UPDATE:

I realized before leaving home from work that Kentucky also has a RFRA. They've had it much longer than Indiana. Kentucky's sky, at least since I've worked in this state, has never fallen. Well, possibly in coal country. But not for that reason.

And when I got across the bridge last night, I was careful to look around. No sky pieces on the road, or anywhere. I'm very puzzled why people are so afraid. I'm very curious why people think this will really change anything in Indiana. I'm starting to suspect all the outrage might just be ... POLITICAL!

Its simple. GENCON has said it will move. If they move to a State that doesn't have such a law, they are getting somewhat limited in their selections. Maybe Arkansas?

 

[Lowe0]

So you speak for millennials?

They're doing a good job of speaking for themselves. Feel free to listen.

 

[jamil]

They're doing a good job of speaking for themselves. Feel free to listen.

I've been listening. And to think they once kissed their mommies with the same mouth!

 

[olhorseman]

I have voted (R) nearly exclusively in every election since I was eligible to vote. I still believe this is a bad bill. This is directed at one specific group of individuals that some people don't care for. Their religious beliefs also condemn (via the ten commandments) other sinful behaviors, and I fully suspect we will not see people barred for being adulterous, not honoring their mother/father, for saying 'god damn' when angry, those that work on sunday, those that steal, lie or covet their neighbors. Nope... all these people will be welcome with open arms despite the religious objections scribed in stone. They are going to target gays because they personally find them distasteful, not because their religious convictions command them to.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

All I can say is that I'm anxious to see how many business owners place a sign on their door expressing their support for this new law, and would hope that they have the honesty to list those "kinds of people" or "kinds of things" that their business chooses not to be involved with.

After all, if the majority of Hoosiers really do support the new law, such a sign would only serve to keep those very few from wasting the businesses time.



I'll bet a box of bullets that we will see many more signs expressing that all are welcome.

 

[MisterChester]

I have voted (R) nearly exclusively in every election since I was eligible to vote. I still believe this is a bad bill. This is directed at one specific group of individuals that some people don't care for. Their religious beliefs also condemn (via the ten commandments) other sinful behaviors, and I fully suspect we will not see people barred for being adulterous, not honoring their mother/father, for saying 'god damn' when angry, those that work on sunday, those that steal, lie or covet their neighbors. Nope... all these people will be welcome with open arms despite the religious objections scribed in stone. They are going to target gays because they personally find them distasteful, not because their religious convictions command them to.

I'm starting to think it's just a last ditch effort by the Indiana GOP to say something against same sex marriage becoming legal. It's obvious they are upset about it, heck that's all they complain about anymore.

 

[MisterChester]

All I can say is that I'm anxious to see how many business owners place a sign on their door expressing their support for this new law, and would hope that they have the honesty to list those "kinds of people" or "kinds of things" that their business chooses not to be involved with.

After all, if the majority of Hoosiers really do support the new law, such a sign would only serve to keep those very few from wasting the businesses time.



I'll bet a box of bullets that we will see many more signs expressing that all are welcome.

Those that support it will put up a sign if their discriminatory convictions are more important than their need to put bread on the table.

 

[miguel]

What I can't understand is why anyone, being gay or otherwise, would want to try to force a business into a contract knowing the business is against it. Being a small business owner, I have dealt businesses that weren't willing to do a job for some reason only known to them, and it didn't bother me. As a matter of fact, I was glad to find that out because I would put them on my personal list of businesses that I will avoid.

Because it isn't about a cake. It isn't about catering a wedding reception. It's about power and control. They have had victim status for so long, but are recently waxing, so now they are playing the role of vengeful conquerors...typical human behavior. They're doing it because they can.

That's human nature, "Hey, we don't want to be in charge, we just want equality." Next thing you know...

 

[Roscoe38]

Or we can just discuss the merits and necessities of this Indiana law.



Yeah, Indiana's subreddits are especially ****ty about it. Trying to start blacklists of businesses and whatnot.

What is a whatnot and a subreddit?

 

[printcraft]

What is a whatnot and a subreddit?

Sort of like a hootenanny give or take a pound.

 

[miguel]

All I can say is that I'm anxious to see how many business owners place a sign on their door expressing their support for this new law, and would hope that they have the honesty to list those "kinds of people" or "kinds of things" that their business chooses not to be involved with.

I think few would, because for the overwhelming majority of businesses, a customer's purchases (to buy a hammer, a car, patio furniture, etc.) doesn't require any emotional, spiritual or intellectual compromise. For example:

"I sell hardware and a guy/gal/other is here to buy a ratchet set, so I sell it to them. I sell tools to people."

"I make wedding cakes but I don't believe that is 'really' a wedding (based on my religion) so I don't want to cross that line...please move along."

 

[dusty88]

You would be wrong. Employment in Indiana is at will. You can be fired for any reason. Or no reason at all. Nothing in this bill changed that.

I don't see how the bill changed that, but "at will" doesn't cover protected classes. Women and minority races can still use the threat of a protected class lawsuit against an employer.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

UPDATE: I'm starting to suspect all the outrage might just be ... POLITICAL!

I think even the folks who are very pleased at what our state government just put together for us might want to think a little more about what our state government was really trying to have us NOT to be thinking and talking about.

Kind of like a man coming home from work to find a wonderful dinner with his favorite meal, followed by all the other things that make for a really great evening. It's so nice that he spends the next few days thinking about how lucky he is.

Then, two weeks later, he gets the credit card bill and finds out that she'd spent $700 on shoes that day.

 

[1775usmarine]

You are wrong. I don't like it, but love living in Indiana. Wouldn't live in Cali if you bought my house for me. Don't think the good folks actually think this is a good law. The good folks aren't the ones who enacted this law.

So were you/or are you still for the contraceptive mandate? I mean if you don't want us to know what you do in your private room then why should we pay for what you do which in some cases leads to irresponsible consequences? The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Hobby Lobby using the RFRA as its basis.

 

[1775usmarine]

I have voted (R) nearly exclusively in every election since I was eligible to vote. I still believe this is a bad bill. This is directed at one specific group of individuals that some people don't care for. Their religious beliefs also condemn (via the ten commandments) other sinful behaviors, and I fully suspect we will not see people barred for being adulterous, not honoring their mother/father, for saying 'god damn' when angry, those that work on sunday, those that steal, lie or covet their neighbors. Nope... all these people will be welcome with open arms despite the religious objections scribed in stone. They are going to target gays because they personally find them distasteful, not because their religious convictions command them to.

Show me in the bill where they mention this group of people. Most religion even if they believe different teach tolerance of others. it doesn't say you have to accept them. You may try to change their views but if not you will tolerate them.

 

[Denny347]

I don't see how the bill changed that, but "at will" doesn't cover protected classes. Women and minority races can still use the threat of a protected class lawsuit against an employer.

I bet there will now be a push here to include homosexuals as a protected class. They currently are not and changing their status would "void" most of the law. If I was a betting man.

 

[bmbutch]

So were you/or are you still for the contraceptive mandate? I mean if you don't want us to know what you do in your private room then why should we pay for what you do which in some cases leads to irresponsible consequences? The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Hobby Lobby using the RFRA as its basis.

That's very similar in what I'm seeing from this bill, I'm not seeing the "supposed liscence to hate & discriminate", it appears to me, it's directed at protecting a business from being forced to perform a service that is in direct conflict to their religious beliefs.
Examples:
Dr not being forced to perform abortions. (Use common sense, I know not all Dr believe abortion is wrong).
Pastor not being forced to perform a gay wedding, a polygamy wedding, or another type outside of their religious beliefs.
Sign maker not being forced to print satanic, pro adultery, etc signs.

Sounds like more of the tolerant left showing their true tolerance.

I wouldn't expect a Muslim owned business to serve me bacon, that would violate their belief, & they should not be forced to serve pork or other foods they deem unholy (yes, again, even bacon).