Things that draw attention....or should

[ATF Consumer]

Funny thing...I guess my wife and I were profiled at least once anyhow...
We usually work late at our lease space that is just about 3 blocks from our house.
It was past midnight and as we were leaving the building's parking lot, a Beech Grove LEO is at the intersection across from us, as we cross the intersection, the LEO does a U-turn in the intersection and follows us to hour housing edition...just a few blocks from where we just left.
As we were entering the edition, he turns on his lights. My house is one of the first ones in the area, so I pulled into my drive and got out of my vehicle. The LEO yelled at me to get back into my vehicle. I explained that I live there, but he didn't care and told me to do it now.
With his lights continued on...waking up my neighbors for sure, comes up to my window and asks me where I was coming from and what I was doing. After I told him I just got off of work and drove home, he didn't seem to believe me. He then asked what business it was. He called in my license to see if I had anything pending. My wife got out of the vehicle and was yelling at him for his actions, I remained calm.
He said that we looked suspicious leaving a business complex that late at night and wanted to make sure we weren't up to any trouble.
So yeah, I know how you feel about being profiled...Although, I don't think the LEO had any right or reason for lighting us up, as no crime had been committed and we did nothing to justify his actions.
Purely an eager young LEO trying to do his job the best he thought he could.
Again, I'm all for profiling, but to stop us when there was no reason or cause, is simply an abuse of power.

 

[samot]

That is an unfortunate experience to say the least.

Thats an understatement!!!!!
Alwalker, i have been in similar & sometimes worse situations. Its not only BS, but it puts you in fear of the law. Are we supposed to fear the people that we pay to protect us & our families.
After having these "unfortunate experiences" are people supposed to respect the officers as if nothing ever happened ?
You can tell the people, that have had these "unfortunate experiences" from thier responses in this thread.
Rednecmedic, obviously has never been tossed to the ground for not using a turn signal, i only hope he can share these "unfortunate experiences" with those of us who have so that maybe he can see how this profiling thing can get really carried away.

 

[alwalker84]

Holy smokes!! If the "A" in A L Walker stands for "Arthur", and if you ever took a copy of The Princess Bride to a white girl's house affectionately known ever after as the "Wonder Bread Crib" and sat on the floor eating popcorn and laughing your butt off... I do believe we know each other.

Lol! As fun as that seems, no im not Arthur.

As far as the thread goes, I hope I didnt derail it. I was told to share so I did.

I dont know what was on those cops' minds in those situations or any others I've been in and I really dont care. Plain sux.

 

[JetGirl]

Lol! As fun as that seems, no im not Arthur.

Well, dang. Just how many 6'5" black "A. Walker"s do you think are driving around in black trucks with dark windows and like to go to Pacer games?

Don't answer that...it might be profiling!!

 

[LuckyBrush]

I personally know several officers, and past officers. I once heard one say, "We have to believe that everyone is or at least probably a criminal". This man was a good cop, and I believe stereotyping or profiling others is sometimes necessary in order to not only protect their own lives, but ours as well. I surely have been profiled by police, and by others as well. It seems we are all judged throughout our lives by society, in order to fit a certain "profile". Plainly and simply, there are good cops and there are bad cops, just like with anyone. They are real people just like the rest of us. We all know "Rodney Kinging" us is an abuse of power, but it is also breaking the laws they enforce. I see that in recent years (in news media mostly), cops are increasingly being "profiled" by citizens. Like when one bad cop gets caught on film breaking the law in some manner leading the general public to "profile" law enforcement officers in general as corrupt. They for the most part, put their lives on the line every day, so we can come and go safely. They are the ones who arrive to crashes, call for rednekmedics, they save people during floods etc.etc.etc. They sometimes get killed when they fail to profile people. Point #1: They risk their lives every day to keep ours safer, and therefore have the right to profile us, as long as it is within the bounds of the law (anything less is well, an illegal offense). Point #2: If you were in a life and death situation maybe multiple times daily, would you begin to learn and utilize signs that better help you to identify the kind of people that statistically usually create those situation? Point 3: There are definately two sides to this and any story, and most every human being. It is after all, in our nature to sin. Every person has the potential to break the law (especially when there are so many).
I feel I am rambling, but what else were you going to do other than read my post on Ingo? Oh well, everyone has an opinion, this is mine. Profile us yes please, (but keep it legal ya hippocrits!) and when they find out you are a model citizen, you'll be on your way, and you'll feel better knowing that they may catch a murderer/rapist/molester using that same technique.

 

[Bill of Rights]

If he stopped you for no reason he is an idiot. The example I always gave to trainees was that you stop a vehicle without probable course or perform an illegal search, during which you locate a gun that was used to kill a child rape victim in another state. Because of your lack of professionalism and articulation the gun is considered fruit of the poisonous tree and excluded from evidence. The suspect goes free. That is the standard by which you have to conduct yourself during every contact. Once you locate the evidence it is too late to go back.- George

Alwalker, I'm saddened to hear of your bad experiences. Speaking solely on the basis of your view of what happened (and that, only because the LEO isn't here to articulate his side of it) I would agree with you that profiling in this instance was not only improper, it was unlawful. George, your post (quoted) is an excellent explanation why. Thank you for posting it. Up through post #40, I will say that if it took all of this to get to George's point, it was worth it.

As RNM said, so I will echo. You're da*n right I "profile" people. I'll be fair and reasonable with them until they are not with me (and then, maybe), but I'm going home at the end of my shift, and if that means I refuse to transport this person without a cop on board, so be it. I've got about 9' x 6' x 5.5' of room to maneuver. That ain't a lot of room when you're in it with a homicidal SOB, and I'll take every advantage I can get.

It's already a crock of crap that I can't be armed in there... well.... not with the tool I'd prefer, anyway.

<Forrest> "and that's all I got to say about that.</Forrest>

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

Well, dang. Just how many 6'5" black "A. Walker"s do you think are driving around in black trucks with dark windows and like to go to Pacer games?

Don't answer that...it might be profiling!!

I'll answer it: Apparently, at least two!

Al, isn't it nice to know you have a pseudo-twin?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

I personally know several officers, and past officers. I once heard one say, "We have to believe that everyone is or at least probably a criminal". This man was a good cop, and I believe stereotyping or profiling others is sometimes necessary in order to not only protect their own lives, but ours as well. I surely have been profiled by police, and by others as well. It seems we are all judged throughout our lives by society, in order to fit a certain "profile". Plainly and simply, there are good cops and there are bad cops, just like with anyone. They are real people just like the rest of us. We all know "Rodney Kinging" us is an abuse of power, but it is also breaking the laws they enforce. I see that in recent years (in news media mostly), cops are increasingly being "profiled" by citizens. Like when one bad cop gets caught on film breaking the law in some manner leading the general public to "profile" law enforcement officers in general as corrupt. They for the most part, put their lives on the line every day, so we can come and go safely. They are the ones who arrive to crashes, call for rednekmedics, they save people during floods etc.etc.etc. They sometimes get killed when they fail to profile people. Point #1: They risk their lives every day to keep ours safer, and therefore have the right to profile us, as long as it is within the bounds of the law (anything less is well, an illegal offense). Point #2: If you were in a life and death situation maybe multiple times daily, would you begin to learn and utilize signs that better help you to identify the kind of people that statistically usually create those situation? Point 3: There are definately two sides to this and any story, and most every human being. It is after all, in our nature to sin. Every person has the potential to break the law (especially when there are so many).
I feel I am rambling, but what else were you going to do other than read my post on Ingo? Oh well, everyone has an opinion, this is mine. Profile us yes please, (but keep it legal ya hippocrits!) and when they find out you are a model citizen, you'll be on your way, and you'll feel better knowing that they may catch a murderer/rapist/molester using that same technique.

Great point about profiling police! I've never seen it put that way, but da*ned if it's not accurate!

Two corrections, however:
1) You said that the officers have the right to profile citizens. I disagree. They have the power to profile, not the right. The two are not synonymous.
2) You said, "you'll feel better knowing that they may catch a [criminal] using that same technique". No. I would feel better if that and other techniques were used solely to catch those violent criminals but I do not agree that I should be pulled from my car and thrown down to "eat Crown Vic" because someone wanted to catch a BG. My rights don't end because some criminal plied his trade.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

OR...it *could* mean that the man works crazy long hours at a job that is 100 mile round trip every day and whenever the man and woman go anywhere, the man is just sick of driving...and the woman is the better driver anyhow.

While the fianceé isn't a better driver, she usually doesn't let me drive her car. However, now that mine is fixed, maybe I can reverse the pattern so our boys in blue don't get their hackles up.

 

[alwalker84]

All good responses.

 

[Roadie]

When I had long hair I used to get profiled a LOT. I lived on the North side and worked in Carmel....

That being said, I can tell you it is not wise to smart off to a young rookie with no sense of humor. I drove an old Honda Civic, that I was always working on, so I had tools, and a full size spare in the back, covered with a packing blanket for when I had to crawl under the car. Carmel PD pulls me over as I pull into a friends apartments. I had been pulled over twice that week already, so I was pretty frustrated.

He asked me "What's under the blanket?". Well, being the smart a$$ that I am, I said: "Just a dead body, Sir".

Gun in my face, yanked out of the car, pushed face down on the hood as he searched my car...as I said, he was not amused, nor was my passenger, lol

Lesson learned though...

 

[mercop]

Now see, I would have laughed at that.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Situational awarness will save your life. Always be aware of your suroundings, and if something looks supicious chances are it is. In this day in age you cant let your guard down. There are to many that will take advantage of it.

 

[T-rav]

Now see, I would have laughed at that.

As would of I, I was a horrible smartass to cops when I got pulled over when I was in high school and quite honestly my rights were infringed upon every time I was pulled over and my car searched. Guess when they ask if i had any drugs in the car tylonol did not count.

Back to the topic though I would like more info on tools you use to profile.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Ok,

There are QUITE a few instances, but ill give you the most rescent.

Sat. Nov. 28th.

On the way home 2am ish.

Im on the way home from white castles and pull into my nieghborhood. All the sudden...flashing lights. I pull over.

I get out my liscense and registration. For the officer. (having not 1 clue what I did to get pulled over) I roll down my drivers side window, but he comes to the passenger. He eases up on me with his hand near his gun.

Him: Have any guns in the car?
Me: (wtf) Yes
Him: Where?
Me: On my hip
Him: License and registration please
Me: Ok, here it is. What did I do
Him: No answer. (calling in license)
Me: Did I do something wrong
Him: hold tight., where did you say your gun was.
Me: On my hip, do you need to see my LTCH sir
Him: yes, and dont make any sudden movements
Me: ok,
Him: where are you coming from? (while calling in LTCH)
Me: Getting something to eat.
Him: You have car insurance?
Me: Yes, my insurance card is right there on the seat.
Him: Whos it thru?
Me: Its right there on the seat.
Him: I said whos it thru.
Me: Progressive.
Him: Ok,
Me: What did I do?
Him: Nothing, have a nice night...

Thats somewhat sumed up...there where alot of pauses and wierd stares.

This is a mild profiling incident ill say compared to the past, but im sure my black truck with black tinted windows at 2am had nothing to do with me getting pulled over. Im all for checking out suspicious vehicles, but not just for the hell of it...If there are suspicious acts (slow driving, circling the block, speeding, lights off, etc. etc.) then no problem. I was 2 houses down mine and had done nothing of the sort.

The reason I call profiling in this situation is because the LEO asked me all these questions and responded to me (facial expressions etc.) as if I was the biggest liar on this side of the mississippi. He was also seemingly pissed when everything came back clean....hence him saying nothing an walking back to his cruiser.

Or, I guess I could talk about the time I got pulled over on 93rd and college on my birthday. I asked the officier if I had done anything wrong and his words were...you are in a suspicious vehicle :wtf:

I asked him why my vehicle was suspicious and he said because your in it. (not kidding) The two officers tore my car apart on the inside..(never asked me for consent to search) as I sat in the back of one of the LEO's cruiser in handcuffs....yes handcuffs. "For their safety"....Really dude?

Anyway, of course I was clean and they let me go into my apartment (which they followed me to until I parked).

Being 6'5" and black sometimes has its disadvantages guys...lets just call it what it is. Anyone who has ever met me knows how nice of a guy I am, including the people I have made deals with and shot with here (FNS).

The profiling dosent give me that opportunity to exert my friendliness before im already labled otherwise.

(Oh and I mentioned the being followed around walmart and being pulled over with more than one adult in my car on the way to a pacer game for a reason)

Wow! From reading your posts I had no idea you were...so tall!

 

[bwframe]

...Anyone who has ever met me knows how nice of a guy I am, including the people I have made deals with and shot with here (FNS)....

I'm happy to be one of them. Mr. Walker is a fine fellow.

 

[flagtag]

I drive a pickup. (well, when it runs that is ) If a friend rides with me (talking about a man here), I will be driving - my vehicle, I'm driving. (Also, insurance issues)
Same goes for my car (ugly piece of rust - but it runs!) BUT - if my family goes to IN to visit family, my son will usually drive. (My name is on the truck plates).
I drive a school bus 5 days a week (when school is in session) and like being the passenger sometimes. (streach out, lean back, close the eyes )

With IL plates, I wouldn't be surprised if I were "profiled" (out-of-stater), no big deal. (I might get "ticked" if a LEO tries to pull the "puff & tower" routine on me, tho - no need)

Thanks, mercop, for the information. Do you have more for us?
The way things are going, we need all the help we can get. I'm sure it's going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[Dr Falken]

As someone who has worked nights for 13+ years, I can tell you a little about the special interest that you get at that time of night...you could do the same things in the middle of the day and get no notice (well and there would be too many people to pull over, just not economical). So, driving at night will get you noticed, and according to my co-workers who are black, so will being black. I, have not had a moving violation since 1986-7, and usually drive accordingly. The few times that I have been pulled over, there were reasons, albeit, weak ones, but I usually played along, told them were I worked, said "Officer" instead of "Cop", was polite, had insurance, and well, look white (multi-racial). My vehicles are fairly non-descript(except for the extra antennas), or do not met the "profile" so I usually have no issues. I do wish that soccer moms who run stop signs would get a little more attention, but they don't do it at 3am, so no dice.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I'm actually VERY offended by most of the OP. For example, when I'm home my wife drives. I drive over 4000 miles a week and the last thing I'm going to do is drive when I'm not working. My car is a 4x4 suv that clearly belongs to a man, the wife likes to drive it because she feels safer in it with our children, while her car is a saturn that clearly belongs to a woman. When she has my car and I need to go somewhere, I drive hers. Also, it is not a crime to LOOK for women, drugs or booze. The only crime that is even a possibility is if they FIND the drugs. In fact when I buy booze, I usually DRIVE to the liquor store and sometimes even bring a friend, sometimes my friend is even drunk but since I'm driving it doesn't matter.

 

[mercop]

I'm actually VERY offended by most of the OP. For example, when I'm home my wife drives. I drive over 4000 miles a week and the last thing I'm going to do is drive when I'm not working. My car is a 4x4 suv that clearly belongs to a man, the wife likes to drive it because she feels safer in it with our children, while her car is a saturn that clearly belongs to a woman. When she has my car and I need to go somewhere, I drive hers. Also, it is not a crime to LOOK for women, drugs or booze. The only crime that is even a possibility is if they FIND the drugs. In fact when I buy booze, I usually DRIVE to the liquor store and sometimes even bring a friend, sometimes my friend is even drunk but since I'm driving it doesn't matter.

ThrottleJockey- thanks for the negative reputation point. However will my life go on? Hope some people have gotten the point of my post.- George